Galant VR2 built

[Galant_martin]

Hey guys, im new here and have a few questions. Its complicated to get an VR4 here in Austria, so i bought an FWD hatchback 89'

My plan now, built an 4g63t from my stock N/A block. For the ecu i use an EPROM Ecu with ostrich 2.0 and speed density. Compression ratio is 10:1 (afaik) and i drive on 98 octane fuel. Turbocharger should be an Evo VI 16G6

so now do u think ~7PSI is okay? Which parts i should get?
FMIC? 550cc injectors and what exhaust manifold? Stock Fuelpump is okay and Turbo FPR?

I think i forget something to asl too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Greetings

 

[BogusSVO]

The rings sit a bit high in the NA pistons. You would be better off getting a set of turbo pistons and rings for it.

I have seen the na to turbo swap attempted at least 12 times, and 12 times I have seen it fail.

Most of the time the NA rings are gapped to tight and the heat from boost causes them to butt ends and crack ring lands.

A buddy of mine tried it 4 times in 3 days, stock ecu, stock 14B, stock settings. Pulled the short blocks down, cracked ring lands.

I understand you said you will get a tune solution, I just doubt you will get a tune done before the engine pops.

For a quick backyard build, parts wise

NPR 63DT pistons and rings (7.8:1 CR)
ARP head studs
Fel-pro 9627 PT HG
Engine Tech/Evergreen gasket set (Throw the HG and oil pan gaskets in the trash)
King Rod and main bearings
Mitsu Stubby shaft and a 35mm Freeze plug
Green plasti-gauge

Maybe $400 USD spent, and you can go boost, and have something that can take it

 

[mitsuturbo]

This guy knows ^

Unfortunately, i know all about Non Turbo pistons in a turbo application as well. I once tried the NA 9:1 setup. I gapped my rings to turbo spec, however. It lasted for a while, until i started running more than stock boost. Then all hell broke loose (well, actually just the ring lands) and the car started smoking like a coal fired steam engine in fairly short order. When i knocked the slugs out, nice bits of ring land went clanking all over the shop floor. The ring lands on the NA pistons are a bit thinner. They're really not engineered to deal with forced induction.

I would advise strongly against running NA pistons.

 

[Galant_martin]

Hey, guys,
thanks for the quick response /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

okay so i better change the C/R. Were do I get this parts for that cheap price? I've searched a bit But what place do u prefer?

And my other big question, which exhaust manifold would fit? Or do I have to get an Evo 3 and reweld the fange?

 

[fuel]

Surely you would be able to find a Dynamic 4 hatch somewhere in Europe nearby?

 

[Galant_martin]

I dont mind If it is hatchback or not, there was an Dynamic 4 AWD N/A but in bad condition. So i bought mine FWD with working ECS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif i drove an boosted 1,8L lancer/galant fortis (i think thats the correct Model Name, the newest) from my mate, and i think 250hp is okay with fwd for me.

The 16g6 is for more, i know, but i got him cheap /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[BogusSVO]

You can get most all the parts form Ebay here in the states. In your part of the world, I do not know where or who to point you to.

For the 16g, if it is the same DSM flange one, grab up a 2g/7 bolt exhaust turbo mani. It will bolt to the 4g63 head and the 16g turbo.

 

[Galant_martin]

So, best would be if i buy it all in the US.. Would be cheaper for me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The flange is twinscroll like this

click

My engine is a 6bolt (i looked at the oilpan, i hope im right)




So, few things i found:

Pistons: 160$
click

Piston Rings:60$
click

Headgasket: 90$
click

Head Studs: 90$
click

King Rod Bearings: 35$
click

King Main Bearings: 65$
click

So im on ~500$ (360€) right now, i dont find this gasket kit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If anybody found cheper ones, just tell me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Maybe someone has turbo pistons, he can pm me too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Greetings, and great ppl here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

 

[BogusSVO]

Look at the oil pan where it meets the front case, if it is flat across it is a 6 bolt

If it has a a dip to it it is a 7 bolt

Also if you pull the valve cover

The 6 bolts use a head bolt that you need a 10mm hex bit socket to remove

The 7 bolts will use a 12mm 12 point socket to remove

A helpful tip... Pull the engine down and confirm what size pistons/rings and rod and main bearings you need.

Having to spend money twice on parts is not fun.

I would hate it for you if you ordered in all your parts in STD size, then you find out your block is .50mm/.020 over and your crank has been cut .25mm-.010/.25mm-.010

 

[Galant_martin]

So.

im sorry. In the year '96 there was an enigne fail and prev. owner did a repair in the mitsu-shop. He paid near 4000$ for an new engine, and i have the bills here. They used Headstuds: MD121887, the have M12 screws.. so it would be a 7 bolt?

Pulling the whole engine down is a good idea, but not easy cause i need the car for work sometimes too..

I look to the oilpan the next days.

 

[BogusSVO]

No a 6 bolt would have the 12mm head bolts (with the 10mm hex)

A 7 bolt has 11mm head bolts.

So if you have the 12mm head bolts, then you have a 6 bolt.

 

[Galant_martin]

Oh okay. Good

But the other maybe 75 bills dont say anything about overbore or something. So i feel safe to buy this parts, i hope it goes well. An oem replacement timing belt would be okay?

 

[BogusSVO]

Most stay with a belt from the Dealer

EVO IX 1145A038 about $90

 

[misterfixit]

You will find dealer supply belts in Europe are gates. This is also true of the French oil filters branded as Mitsu from the dealer. Something to do with high volume parts sourced locally. Not good.

It's one thing I take back from the dealers here is factory timing belts and oil filters as it's the genuine Japanese stuff.

Hope this helps.

Rich

 

[Street Surgeon]

Dang, I've pitched at least two good sets of turbo pistons in the past =-( Perhaps someone has some pistons they can send you for the cost of shipping here?

 

[Galant_martin]

Thanks for that Support. I already have one who collect the things from the list plus injectors and timing belt tensioner. This damn tensioner coasts half as much as here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

next thing, i try to sell my Evo 6 reverse turbo now and get an Evo 3 16g /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

How much hp would this Setup stand without blowing in parts??

Greetings

 

[r4pt0x]

Stock turbo pistons (galant, not Eclipse!) would also be OK. In 1989-1991 for EU vehicles the 4G67 DOHC, 4G63 DOHC and 4G63 DOHC turbo had the same crankshaft and conrods - only failures of these stock conrods i've seen (on "budget" engines) came from messed up software or way too high revs...

I'm using stock VR4 pistons + 4G67 cylinder head (smaller rooftops) which results in a static compression of 12.5bar. Outlet valves should be replaced with evo ones.
Try to use the 4G67 inlet manifold as well as they are cheaply available here in austria or germany and have the lowest air volume of the 4G6x manifolds fitting onthe heads with the big intake runners.

Use OEM bearings (measure them out for the upper end of the range from the workshop manual) or ACL ones. Im using ACL as they were in stock when i built my engine and we also never had problems with them...

Camshafts MUST be from/for a turbo engine - yes, the engine also runs on N/A cams, but perform like crap as you have way too much valve overlap. I'm using cams from a very late JDM VR4. All cams up to evo 7/8 (all engines without MIVEC) would fit the head - so have a look what you can find. evo 4-8 are a bit tricky to install and need to be dialed in with adjustable cam gears! But with the relatively small 16G they are not really first choice.

For ECU try to get an evo7/8 one + evo 7-9 MAF. These MAFs have a much higher measuring rate and better airflow.
Stock evo fuel pumps are also easily available as used parts. If you can't find them, contact me - i can get them from rallye basecars, so the pumps were replaced directly from new cars with ~10-20kms


oil filter: just don't use the mz690070 - that's the cheap one which replaces the japan made filter for most of the passenger car engines in europe. Use the MD356000 one, that's the one for evo 1-9, its also a bit shorter than the filter normally used for the galant so it gives you more space for your downpipe.

timing belt: get rid of the small one by removing the balance shafts. makes the engine a bit more responsive and you have one less timing belt that could fail. use the stock MD326059 one - we never had problems with the stock ones, even on tuned engines. As long as you don't use stiffer valve springs and high lift cams you won't need any kevlar belt (we've hat two HKS timing belts failed after only a few 100 kms btw... but none of the OEM ones...)
Try to avoid the XD belts - they are manufactured by external companies in europe, not in japan. The XD replacement for this belt isn't available any more IIRC - so this might be obsolete by now...

get new engine support bearings - the stock evo ones are ideal and cheaply available. especially front + rear bearings WILL fial if you keep your old ones. Check the rear support arm which connects to the bearing - they tend to break sometimes.

clutch: 4-pad exedy sports metal is OK for FWD. Even with 205 semi-slicks the tires will be the weakest link. Never had problems with this clutch (if interested: it will be available in a few weeks as i'll need a 225mm one)

Brakes:
Front: 2-pot from Sigma/Outlander/many others wth 296mm disks and proper pads (pagid rs 4-2 blue)
rear: remove ABS unit for full brake pressure on the rear calipers and use stock pads (with upgraded pads it will get a bit tail-happy under braking- i liked it with the semi-slicks and drove this setup but wouldn't recommend it!)
You will need 16" wheels to fit over these brakes!


I was running such a setup for over 2 years in my E33 FWD and i'm currently rebuilding a dynamic 4 which will get that engine. Boost on summer setup 1,4 bar, winter 1,0 bar (still way too much for FWD + snow...).
I had ~250hp on summer setup but way more torque than some other engines with 300hp+. boost builtup began at ~1800-1900rpm, >1bar @ 3000rpm. Even with the very long gearbox i used (1996 Lancer CB4) the car was still very responsive and quick on mountain roads and i managed ~10l/100kms @ 200kph. I never tried the top speed - 280kph are enough to sh*t your pants in a 1990s car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I might have some parts left after the engine swap into the 4WD car - contact me if you are interested. If your Galant has ECS suspension you can get parts from my car - I replaced all 4 dampers during the last 3 years!
Where are you from in austria? Maybe you can have a look at my E33 turbo for some details - i'm living near Salzburg.