tektic
Well-known member
So this post is almost on page 3... What's the verdict?
BC @ 1k vs. Feal @ 1.5k
Are the feal worth the extra money?
If so why?
BC @ 1k vs. Feal @ 1.5k
Are the feal worth the extra money?
If so why?
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Feal CoilOver 441MI-05 7K 7K
- Thread startertektic
- Start date
ApexHunter
Well-known member
The Swift springs are more consistent from spring to spring, and more linear. The standard Asian supply springs aren't terrible, but they aren't so linear. BC's are available with Swifts, but then you are looking at a cost increase of ~$300
The valving on the Feal is quite a bit better as well. BC's valving isn't bad, but can be pretty generic. Their cartridges tend to be used across a number of different applications, whereas each Feal kit is valved for the specific application.
I'd say the Feals are worth it, if you are looking for shocks that perform damn well but you can't drop the cash for a set of Ohlins or the like. Still, price of entry is a bit higher than the BCs, so it all depends on what you are going for i suppose.
$1500 sounds a bit high. They are $1350 direct from Feal. Heeltoe is running a special too, so there are some deals out there as well.
The valving on the Feal is quite a bit better as well. BC's valving isn't bad, but can be pretty generic. Their cartridges tend to be used across a number of different applications, whereas each Feal kit is valved for the specific application.
I'd say the Feals are worth it, if you are looking for shocks that perform damn well but you can't drop the cash for a set of Ohlins or the like. Still, price of entry is a bit higher than the BCs, so it all depends on what you are going for i suppose.
$1500 sounds a bit high. They are $1350 direct from Feal. Heeltoe is running a special too, so there are some deals out there as well.
Drew84
Well-known member
I'm looking at these for my Talon more so than my Galant. I'm getting the Talon ready over the winter for some track day use.
Can these be built with Swift assist springs in mind? I'd assume so. It would be nice to try and minimize inside wheel lift while cornering with stock differentials.
Can these be built with Swift assist springs in mind? I'd assume so. It would be nice to try and minimize inside wheel lift while cornering with stock differentials.
ApexHunter
Well-known member
Hey Drew,
I spoke with Feal for you today to get some feedback and info.
The Assist springs work very well if you would be using a one of their road race kits with stiff springs, and Feal would spring/valve the kit for your exact requirements. Base MSRP is $1550, and Assist springs run $125/pair.
The default 1G AWD kit uses 7k springs F/R. For optimal performance, they wouldn't recommend Assist or Helper springs with the default kit. Everything has already been mathematically calculated to achieve 30% droop of total travel to help maximize wheel to surface contact during full rebound, which should help with the stock diffs. Putting them in the default kit could be detrimental to performance, as they would eat up too much stroke.
I spoke with Feal for you today to get some feedback and info.
The Assist springs work very well if you would be using a one of their road race kits with stiff springs, and Feal would spring/valve the kit for your exact requirements. Base MSRP is $1550, and Assist springs run $125/pair.
The default 1G AWD kit uses 7k springs F/R. For optimal performance, they wouldn't recommend Assist or Helper springs with the default kit. Everything has already been mathematically calculated to achieve 30% droop of total travel to help maximize wheel to surface contact during full rebound, which should help with the stock diffs. Putting them in the default kit could be detrimental to performance, as they would eat up too much stroke.
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EMX5636
Well-known member
From my perspective, most of these style "street/strip" style coilovers, don't have the travel to require helper springs. The 30% droop number sounds about correct on my Galant, and full extension doesn't release the spring in the collars so really no need. Now if you wanted a gravel or dirt rally specific setup that requires a lot more travel, then yes, helpers are definitely recommended, but I think you're in the realm of DMS, Hotbits, KW etc.
As for my feedback so far... I think they are definitely a little more plush than the KSports were, probably mostly due to the Swifts. I haven't messed with damping adjustments much, but I'll try to do a couple back to back drives on them at full soft and full hard to get an idea of how much window there is. PA roads are not nice to cars/wheels/suspension etc, so I intend to hopefully give these things a pretty thorough thrashing. I've had a few requests for video of said train bridge jumping, so I might have to break out the GoPro. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
As for my feedback so far... I think they are definitely a little more plush than the KSports were, probably mostly due to the Swifts. I haven't messed with damping adjustments much, but I'll try to do a couple back to back drives on them at full soft and full hard to get an idea of how much window there is. PA roads are not nice to cars/wheels/suspension etc, so I intend to hopefully give these things a pretty thorough thrashing. I've had a few requests for video of said train bridge jumping, so I might have to break out the GoPro. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
Drew84
Well-known member
OK cool, I've driven on different cars I've owned, coilovers that don't have enough droop travel and the ride sucks. My STi would lift while auto-xing, but that car had diffs that could keep up with it.
I'm getting the Talon ready for auto-x and track days. I'd also be running a Whiteline rear bar I have. I'll shoot Feal an email in the spring when I'm ready to buy, sounds like they'll set me up.
I'm actually helping a friend pull sprints from his STi struts for a gravel re-valve.
I'm getting the Talon ready for auto-x and track days. I'd also be running a Whiteline rear bar I have. I'll shoot Feal an email in the spring when I'm ready to buy, sounds like they'll set me up.
I'm actually helping a friend pull sprints from his STi struts for a gravel re-valve.
ApexHunter
Well-known member
Right on. Yeah, they'll take good care of you. And they have been known to work some magic with the STi struts!
belize1334
Well-known member
Can anyone comment on the total available travel? I.e, measure the length of the shock between the upper perch and the bump stop? Also, On the Feal website they offer a "max travel" variant of the 441 kit (but only for Evo/WRX/etc). Would they be willing to make that an option for our cars? Reason being: I'd like to get more travel than I have on my BC stuff, which is about 2" TOTAL. That's fine as long as you stick to 8k/6k rates or more, but I'd like to go a little softer, say 6k/5k, which I'm told will make my BCs bottom out (info direct from BC racing). If these have more travel than that, or if the max travel version is available for our platform, that would be more to my liking.
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ApexHunter
Well-known member
Unfortunately i don't have any on hand at the moment to measure. Can anyone lend a hand?
These are all built to order, and I would be surprised if the max travel option was not available for the E39A kit. I'll contact them for you to confirm.
I will say that these ride smoother than the BCs i had on my car. If you are looking for more compliance, even with the OTS 7k/7k, these will provide.
These are all built to order, and I would be surprised if the max travel option was not available for the E39A kit. I'll contact them for you to confirm.
I will say that these ride smoother than the BCs i had on my car. If you are looking for more compliance, even with the OTS 7k/7k, these will provide.
EMX5636
Well-known member
These at the standard spring rates are definitely plusher than my K-sports were. Enough in fact, I'll probably be adding about 1/2" of ride height to keep from tire rub with me driving like a jackass.
As far as the measurements, I can probably get you some by the end of the weekend. I'll get full extended, and at ride height (supplied amount of coil preload) available travel. That way we can dial in some droop/sag measurements as well with coil preload if need be. Someone just send me a reminder please in a day or two! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
As far as the measurements, I can probably get you some by the end of the weekend. I'll get full extended, and at ride height (supplied amount of coil preload) available travel. That way we can dial in some droop/sag measurements as well with coil preload if need be. Someone just send me a reminder please in a day or two! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
ApexHunter
Well-known member
That would be awesome, Justin!
One thing about the Swifts is that they are much more linear and consistent than your standard Asian supply "linear" rate springs. So a 7k spring will remain a 7k spring, and not rate up during compression as many others do.
edit- BTW, if anyone is considering a set of these, please do hit me up. I have discounted pricing available for .org
One thing about the Swifts is that they are much more linear and consistent than your standard Asian supply "linear" rate springs. So a 7k spring will remain a 7k spring, and not rate up during compression as many others do.
edit- BTW, if anyone is considering a set of these, please do hit me up. I have discounted pricing available for .org
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galantgti
Well-known member
Isn't it possible to do a groupbuy for these?
Are these worth the extra money, compared to the 1000 range coilovers? My car is far from a daily, and I rarely go to the track with her. Really doubting what coilovers to buy...
Are these worth the extra money, compared to the 1000 range coilovers? My car is far from a daily, and I rarely go to the track with her. Really doubting what coilovers to buy...
ApexHunter
Well-known member
I'm actually already doing GB pricing, but without the PITA factor of GB management. We have done many successful GBs but are working on trying to automate the process a bit more first to provide better service and make management fast and simple before we do anymore.
BC is a decent product, as I'm told by people who have taken them apart for service or customization. Off the shelf the FEAL is superior. The BC valving is a bit generic. The Swift springs are much more linear and consistent. You pay for it though with the FEALs. And the brake and ABS line mounting may require a bit more creativity.
FEAL is built in house in USA and quality control is top notch. USA based support is valuable also. And ultimately, the dampers perform at a higher level but you are still at a "entry level" esque price point.
BC is a decent product, as I'm told by people who have taken them apart for service or customization. Off the shelf the FEAL is superior. The BC valving is a bit generic. The Swift springs are much more linear and consistent. You pay for it though with the FEALs. And the brake and ABS line mounting may require a bit more creativity.
FEAL is built in house in USA and quality control is top notch. USA based support is valuable also. And ultimately, the dampers perform at a higher level but you are still at a "entry level" esque price point.
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ApexHunter
Well-known member
PS: galantgti I realize you are overseas so I would like to add that the US based support while geographically wouldn't be an advantage, at least the people building them are the same as the ones you talk to when you call them. No private label/3rd party BS.
KiNgMaRtY
Well-known member
Quoting belize1334:
I'd like to get more travel than I have on my BC stuff, which is about 2" TOTAL. That's fine as long as you stick to 8k/6k rates or more, but I'd like to go a little softer, say 6k/5k, which I'm told will make my BCs bottom out (info direct from BC racing). If these have more travel than that, or if the max travel version is available for our platform, that would be more to my liking.
I feel those rates may be too low to take advantage of what the coilovers can offer. The 7/7 that they come in appear to be appropriate rates without being too stiff even for a DD. We all do have different tolerances though.
I'd like to get more travel than I have on my BC stuff, which is about 2" TOTAL. That's fine as long as you stick to 8k/6k rates or more, but I'd like to go a little softer, say 6k/5k, which I'm told will make my BCs bottom out (info direct from BC racing). If these have more travel than that, or if the max travel version is available for our platform, that would be more to my liking.
I feel those rates may be too low to take advantage of what the coilovers can offer. The 7/7 that they come in appear to be appropriate rates without being too stiff even for a DD. We all do have different tolerances though.
ApexHunter
Well-known member
Spoke with Feal this morning, and while they have not yet built a 441MI-05 to "Max Travel" spec, they are confident they could do so if you are interested.
I for one, am interested. It would use slightly softer rates (i'm thinking 6/6?) and appropriately matched valving and dampening adjustment curve. Seems like a very cool idea.
I for one, am interested. It would use slightly softer rates (i'm thinking 6/6?) and appropriately matched valving and dampening adjustment curve. Seems like a very cool idea.
ApexHunter
Well-known member
A little more definitive info for you here:
Quote:
We can certainly make a Max Travel kit for the Galant Vr4! The spring rates we recommend for this kit are 6/4k, but can use the default rates as well. Valving would be slightly different to accommodate the spring rates you choose.
Quote:
We can certainly make a Max Travel kit for the Galant Vr4! The spring rates we recommend for this kit are 6/4k, but can use the default rates as well. Valving would be slightly different to accommodate the spring rates you choose.
EMX5636
Well-known member
Good to know, I might look into swapping out my cartridges. I'd probably still run stiffer rates since mine is subject to landings... Haha
ApexHunter
Well-known member
Yeah Justin! LMK man!
belize1334
Well-known member
Quote:
We can certainly make a Max Travel kit for the Galant Vr4! The spring rates we recommend for this kit are 6/4k, but can use the default rates as well. Valving would be slightly different to accommodate the spring rates you choose.
That's awesome. Does your contact have information on total travel with either the 441 or 441 max travel (info says 20% increase). I know they are set up for 30% sag and that with the cartridge design the ride height doesn't affect travel, but I can't find anything definitive about the actual total travel. It'd be nice to have a real number for, say, total internal shock travel and total travel before bump stop engagement. Regardless, if they're confident that they can be set up to work with 6k/4k rates then I'll probably be in for a set after the holidays.
We can certainly make a Max Travel kit for the Galant Vr4! The spring rates we recommend for this kit are 6/4k, but can use the default rates as well. Valving would be slightly different to accommodate the spring rates you choose.
That's awesome. Does your contact have information on total travel with either the 441 or 441 max travel (info says 20% increase). I know they are set up for 30% sag and that with the cartridge design the ride height doesn't affect travel, but I can't find anything definitive about the actual total travel. It'd be nice to have a real number for, say, total internal shock travel and total travel before bump stop engagement. Regardless, if they're confident that they can be set up to work with 6k/4k rates then I'll probably be in for a set after the holidays.
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