SleepinGVR4
Well-known member
Definitely run more than one ground if your relocating to the trunk.
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- Thread startermitsuturbo
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mitsuturbo
Well-known member
Well, i've got the wire now, so i may as well have a ground run up to the block. I certainly don't think it's going to harm anything, and since i'm already running the + wire, i may as well do the - the same time the carpet is all torn halfway out.
turbowop
Well-known member
You do realize that the entire unibody is made up of large pieces of steel welded together to form one single conductor though, right? So if you attach the ground at the rear, or at the front, it doesn't really matter. That's why the ECU is grounded right next to where it mounts. I mean, there's no harm in it other than the little bit of added weight of the wire and more work for you, but I don't see the need for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Man, I should probably take a break from the forum. I'm starting to feel like a real asshole lately with all my negativism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
Man, I should probably take a break from the forum. I'm starting to feel like a real asshole lately with all my negativism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
Last edited:
SleepinGVR4
Well-known member
Quoting Curtis:
I would but not to many people like those lawnmower batteries. I being one of them. Track car may be fine but I know of 3 or 4 cars that had those little turds and always had weirdo problems. One was a bumped compression evo with a buch of upgrades. Had drivibility issues as well as starting problems. sad when you have a 40K+ evo and makes over 700 to the tires but can't start and burnt up 2 factory starters before he realized I was right. Put in the big red top and has zero problems.
Now for the guys with batteries in the trunk or guys planning on putting them there.
Please for the love of God run another cable from the ground back up front. To optimize an electrical system for a stereo people will run huge fricking wires from there battery to the amp but leave the stock wires on the battery and even smaller wires from the alternator. But will put an upgrade alternator on. Think use the brain .
Best way to do it is take on of those screw in lugs from auto zone that go in the side post gm batteries. Find a hole with a nut welded on the backside of the firewall or fender well and drill out and re tap to that size. Then for the 12volt pos buy a distribution block/bus from a stereo shop that has a piece of phenolic resin or heavy teflon/abs to separate from ground. Get all this mounted nice then start running cable.
First huge 2-0 from distribution block to starter. Then another factory cable or a huge from alternator to little fuse block piece on the top of your battery now. I think there's 2 or 3 fuses on that piece. Now run a huge cable from the 12 volt block in the inter fender well through the big rubber plug up next to the top of the door and into the car. Run this down under the carpet and around the corner of the backseat into the truck corner.
Next is the ground side. Run it from the battery to thew trunk floor and find a place to connect it. Then forward stopping at any and every bolt hole you can find until you hit the side post deal you bolted on. You can daisy chain them or find the crimp on lugs that can be opened up and just strip out a section of insulation and attach as you go. Now that its upfront get a ton of ground wires or one of those kits on ebay and run grounds everywhere. Don't forget the t body, trans, cas, head, intake manifold, valve cover, mount next to the alternator. Etc.
Reason being is copper flows about 7 or 8 times the amount of current than iron or steel. The guys with a battery in the trunk and only a ground to the floor are hurting gas mileage, giving weirdo problems and not optimizing the system. cause back there you have one thin piece of sheetmetal with maybe 10 spot welds and a ton of seem sealer to flow around.
If you want to not believe me and aren't scared to do math click below. Maybe that will change your mind.
resistivity click me
By just adding a bunch of ground wires. My wifes Honda passport picked up 3mpg on the interstate and her next truck the xterra picked up almost 2mpg. Now the VR4 didn't matter but I did see alot faster starting, better driviblity and alot of idle wub wubs went away when I did all mine.
Anymore to this you could had a big circuit breaker, battery cut offs, then larger wires to fuel pumps and hidden switches going to the fuel pump relay, ignition transistor, etc as an anti thief device.
As for the wire bigger is better but don't get home wiring with 8 or 10 strands get welding cable from a farm supply or some of the sexy oxygen free stereo cable. I used stereo stuff mainly because I had it. The city had an auction and I was helping them by cleaning out the cars. The cops got sick of me bringing them more and more stuff to log in as the setup day went by so they told me to throw it all away. I had the trunk of the vr4 full of drug dealer stereo install kits as well as 4 amps one being a memphis bell class d. Lets here it for law enforcement.
EBAY LINK for ground kits
I would but not to many people like those lawnmower batteries. I being one of them. Track car may be fine but I know of 3 or 4 cars that had those little turds and always had weirdo problems. One was a bumped compression evo with a buch of upgrades. Had drivibility issues as well as starting problems. sad when you have a 40K+ evo and makes over 700 to the tires but can't start and burnt up 2 factory starters before he realized I was right. Put in the big red top and has zero problems.
Now for the guys with batteries in the trunk or guys planning on putting them there.
Please for the love of God run another cable from the ground back up front. To optimize an electrical system for a stereo people will run huge fricking wires from there battery to the amp but leave the stock wires on the battery and even smaller wires from the alternator. But will put an upgrade alternator on. Think use the brain .
Best way to do it is take on of those screw in lugs from auto zone that go in the side post gm batteries. Find a hole with a nut welded on the backside of the firewall or fender well and drill out and re tap to that size. Then for the 12volt pos buy a distribution block/bus from a stereo shop that has a piece of phenolic resin or heavy teflon/abs to separate from ground. Get all this mounted nice then start running cable.
First huge 2-0 from distribution block to starter. Then another factory cable or a huge from alternator to little fuse block piece on the top of your battery now. I think there's 2 or 3 fuses on that piece. Now run a huge cable from the 12 volt block in the inter fender well through the big rubber plug up next to the top of the door and into the car. Run this down under the carpet and around the corner of the backseat into the truck corner.
Next is the ground side. Run it from the battery to thew trunk floor and find a place to connect it. Then forward stopping at any and every bolt hole you can find until you hit the side post deal you bolted on. You can daisy chain them or find the crimp on lugs that can be opened up and just strip out a section of insulation and attach as you go. Now that its upfront get a ton of ground wires or one of those kits on ebay and run grounds everywhere. Don't forget the t body, trans, cas, head, intake manifold, valve cover, mount next to the alternator. Etc.
Reason being is copper flows about 7 or 8 times the amount of current than iron or steel. The guys with a battery in the trunk and only a ground to the floor are hurting gas mileage, giving weirdo problems and not optimizing the system. cause back there you have one thin piece of sheetmetal with maybe 10 spot welds and a ton of seem sealer to flow around.
If you want to not believe me and aren't scared to do math click below. Maybe that will change your mind.
resistivity click me
By just adding a bunch of ground wires. My wifes Honda passport picked up 3mpg on the interstate and her next truck the xterra picked up almost 2mpg. Now the VR4 didn't matter but I did see alot faster starting, better driviblity and alot of idle wub wubs went away when I did all mine.
Anymore to this you could had a big circuit breaker, battery cut offs, then larger wires to fuel pumps and hidden switches going to the fuel pump relay, ignition transistor, etc as an anti thief device.
As for the wire bigger is better but don't get home wiring with 8 or 10 strands get welding cable from a farm supply or some of the sexy oxygen free stereo cable. I used stereo stuff mainly because I had it. The city had an auction and I was helping them by cleaning out the cars. The cops got sick of me bringing them more and more stuff to log in as the setup day went by so they told me to throw it all away. I had the trunk of the vr4 full of drug dealer stereo install kits as well as 4 amps one being a memphis bell class d. Lets here it for law enforcement.
EBAY LINK for ground kits
turbowop
Well-known member
Well it works on both my cars without issue, and without loss of gas mileage. Hell, 1051 gets over 25mpg when cruising down the freeway. I guess I'm lucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
Quoting turbowop:
You do realize that the entire unibody is made up of large pieces of steel welded together to form one single conductor though, right? So if you attach the ground at the rear, or at the front, it doesn't really matter. That's why the ECU is grounded right next to where it mounts. I mean, there's no harm in it other than the little bit of added weight of the wire and more work for you, but I don't see the need for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Man, I should probably take a break from the forum. I'm starting to feel like a real asshole lately with all my negativism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
I don't mind it. You're keeping things interesting around here today.
I know the wire isn't necessary, because i was just grounded to the bumper bolts in 1411 and it worked fine. I also once pulled well over 30mpg on the freeway with it like that. But, I figured if i'm going to tear into it this way, i may as well go all out on it. There is a possibility I won't run all the way from back to front with a ground. At the very least, i'll have an extra chunk of 0 gauge wire hanging around, and i certainly can't see any harm in that.
You do realize that the entire unibody is made up of large pieces of steel welded together to form one single conductor though, right? So if you attach the ground at the rear, or at the front, it doesn't really matter. That's why the ECU is grounded right next to where it mounts. I mean, there's no harm in it other than the little bit of added weight of the wire and more work for you, but I don't see the need for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Man, I should probably take a break from the forum. I'm starting to feel like a real asshole lately with all my negativism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
I don't mind it. You're keeping things interesting around here today.
I know the wire isn't necessary, because i was just grounded to the bumper bolts in 1411 and it worked fine. I also once pulled well over 30mpg on the freeway with it like that. But, I figured if i'm going to tear into it this way, i may as well go all out on it. There is a possibility I won't run all the way from back to front with a ground. At the very least, i'll have an extra chunk of 0 gauge wire hanging around, and i certainly can't see any harm in that.
turbowop
Well-known member
I think the bumper bolts are probably the worst place in the trunk for a ground, as has been proven by many that have tried it. I'm surprised it worked as well as it did. Maybe when others try that location they're not sanding away to bare metal and assuming they'll get decent conductivity.
I don't care if you wanna go the extra mile on wire. I was just giving my first hand experience regarding such things. It's not as bad as a ski rack for looks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
I don't care if you wanna go the extra mile on wire. I was just giving my first hand experience regarding such things. It's not as bad as a ski rack for looks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
Well, when i used the bumper bolts, i chased threads, cleaned bolts, and ground the body, and both sides the plate that goes on top, all round BOTH bolt holes. Maybe i just did something others had not done. It worked ok, but i sometimes wondered if I shouldn't have done more. Now, i've got proper parts to do as i see fit, and then some.
Quoting turbowop:
You do realize that the entire unibody is made up of large pieces of steel welded together to form one single conductor though, right? So if you attach the ground at the rear, or at the front, it doesn't really matter. That's why the ECU is grounded right next to where it mounts. I mean, there's no harm in it other than the little bit of added weight of the wire and more work for you, but I don't see the need for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Man, I should probably take a break from the forum. I'm starting to feel like a real asshole lately with all my negativism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
You do realize that thin carbon steel is not the best conductor of electricity and especially spanning over a larger distance and with having to find its path thru some stitch welds? Further, I'm sure you're familiar that with DC, voltage drops relatively quickly in a short distance on the positive side and that grounding is probably one of the most important aspects in low voltage DC? And finally, electronics and small motors (pumps) are especially sensitive to having good grouding and especially the newer stuff (may not be as applicable on these, but still)...Just 'cause something is getting you by for now, why not cover your bases for the future? As in, when rust starts occuring between these sheetmetal pieces, at the welds (let's say), guess what happens?
as for the ECU being grounded next to it's mounting, sure, but what happens when you move your ground source from relatively close to many feet away?
Point is, you can never have too many (good) grounds and you'll thank yourself later when you don't have to deal with mystery problems. Like I said on these it may not be quite as bad as something newer (that has and relies on way more electronics), but it doesn't hurt.
I think it's past your feeding time, pigzilla and that's why you're pissy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You do realize that the entire unibody is made up of large pieces of steel welded together to form one single conductor though, right? So if you attach the ground at the rear, or at the front, it doesn't really matter. That's why the ECU is grounded right next to where it mounts. I mean, there's no harm in it other than the little bit of added weight of the wire and more work for you, but I don't see the need for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Man, I should probably take a break from the forum. I'm starting to feel like a real asshole lately with all my negativism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
You do realize that thin carbon steel is not the best conductor of electricity and especially spanning over a larger distance and with having to find its path thru some stitch welds? Further, I'm sure you're familiar that with DC, voltage drops relatively quickly in a short distance on the positive side and that grounding is probably one of the most important aspects in low voltage DC? And finally, electronics and small motors (pumps) are especially sensitive to having good grouding and especially the newer stuff (may not be as applicable on these, but still)...Just 'cause something is getting you by for now, why not cover your bases for the future? As in, when rust starts occuring between these sheetmetal pieces, at the welds (let's say), guess what happens?
as for the ECU being grounded next to it's mounting, sure, but what happens when you move your ground source from relatively close to many feet away?
Point is, you can never have too many (good) grounds and you'll thank yourself later when you don't have to deal with mystery problems. Like I said on these it may not be quite as bad as something newer (that has and relies on way more electronics), but it doesn't hurt.
I think it's past your feeding time, pigzilla and that's why you're pissy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
turbowop
Well-known member
Well it works for me on two separate cars. And I've used multimeters to check the resistance afterward when doing so with great results. Fawk.
Time for dinner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Time for dinner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Yeah, it worked on #20, as well, but to be on the safe side I want to run some daisy chain setup, as other cars I've had with batteries in the trunk caused some weird issues that were fixed with better grounding. We have enough problems with these 'old cars' as it is, lol.
turbowop
Well-known member
When I bust out the multimeter and do a resistance test between several ground locations around the engine bay and trunk there is zero. I'm guessing that would be difficult to improve upon? Is this pretty much a case by case basis on these cars then? Or am I doing the wrong type of test? I'm no electrical engineer, but I figure I have the basics down. This, coupled with my two cars working properly is why I figured the excess grounding wasn't necessary. I'm genuinely curious.
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
I have to wonder if rust isn't an issue for some cars and their grounding. This car won't have a problem in that category. Not in the least.
Quoting turbowop:
When I bust out the multimeter and do a resistance test between several ground locations around the engine bay and trunk there is zero. I'm guessing that would be difficult to improve upon? Is this pretty much a case by case basis on these cars then? Or am I doing the wrong type of test? I'm no electrical engineer, but I figure I have the basics down. This, coupled with my two cars working properly is why I figured the excess grounding wasn't necessary. I'm genuinely curious.
You are right in checking for (closest to) 0 resistance...Just curious if you're checking from one end of the car to the other (like taking one end of your MM on the engine ground let's say and the other on the trunk metal somewhere)? I am surpised you would not get any resistance over that distance though and if that's true then you're in good shape. As I mentioned, you may be alright, but to me just seems there are so many things that could go wrong down the road that chasing down would be PITA. To me, the most critical things that need a really good ground are the ECU, fuel pump and engine in general (ignition) and maybe some of the sensors (engine). We're lucky that our electronics are pretty crude compared to some of the crap they put in newer stuff!
Yeah, my car worked also with just grounding to the rear strut tower, IIRC (bare metal, tight connection), but then again I have a feeling it would be even better electrical performance/reliability with ensuring the ground 'system', so to speak...Sometimes I overdo things though in the name of making sure everything is close to 100% and things like grounds, you can never have too much. However, it's like sound/heat insulation, where there's a balance in excess weight, too...Electrical/electronics are not a super strong point with me, but just have had some weird/bad/intermittent experiences there on other vehicles and one of those things I don't want to worry about /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
When I bust out the multimeter and do a resistance test between several ground locations around the engine bay and trunk there is zero. I'm guessing that would be difficult to improve upon? Is this pretty much a case by case basis on these cars then? Or am I doing the wrong type of test? I'm no electrical engineer, but I figure I have the basics down. This, coupled with my two cars working properly is why I figured the excess grounding wasn't necessary. I'm genuinely curious.
You are right in checking for (closest to) 0 resistance...Just curious if you're checking from one end of the car to the other (like taking one end of your MM on the engine ground let's say and the other on the trunk metal somewhere)? I am surpised you would not get any resistance over that distance though and if that's true then you're in good shape. As I mentioned, you may be alright, but to me just seems there are so many things that could go wrong down the road that chasing down would be PITA. To me, the most critical things that need a really good ground are the ECU, fuel pump and engine in general (ignition) and maybe some of the sensors (engine). We're lucky that our electronics are pretty crude compared to some of the crap they put in newer stuff!
Yeah, my car worked also with just grounding to the rear strut tower, IIRC (bare metal, tight connection), but then again I have a feeling it would be even better electrical performance/reliability with ensuring the ground 'system', so to speak...Sometimes I overdo things though in the name of making sure everything is close to 100% and things like grounds, you can never have too much. However, it's like sound/heat insulation, where there's a balance in excess weight, too...Electrical/electronics are not a super strong point with me, but just have had some weird/bad/intermittent experiences there on other vehicles and one of those things I don't want to worry about /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
turbowop
Well-known member
Yeah, dude. From the negative post on the battery in the trunk to any factory ground location under the hood I get zero resistance...on both cars.
I don't think we have a lot of ground issues on these cars as long as all factory ground locations are clean and tight. I can understand other cars, but I'm not talking about those when sharing my experiences here.
I don't think we have a lot of ground issues on these cars as long as all factory ground locations are clean and tight. I can understand other cars, but I'm not talking about those when sharing my experiences here.
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
I appreciate the feedback/banter here. Having read all of this, i may just run to a large clean bolt like the strut tower, or maybe a rear seatbelt bolt in the floor. I'll have to see what i want to do once the carpet is all pulled back for the + wire that is running up front to the single post junction block where it will meet with the factory 4 fuse block and other wiring.
1qkfwd
Well-known member
The cars looking good so far. Gives a motivation to want to get my together sooner.
Turbowop you beat me to the punch on the roof rack for looks. Ive read that now notice every 4door has a stupid ass rack and wonder, whats that for.
Turbowop you beat me to the punch on the roof rack for looks. Ive read that now notice every 4door has a stupid ass rack and wonder, whats that for.
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
I think the stainless IC pipe bends i ordered for the cold side arrived today. My 340lph fuel pump is on its way as well. Looks like i'm going to have to tear into this thing pretty good again next week. Lots of work to do in the back of the car now, what with the battery relocation and the fuel pump install/rewire. After I get that all done, and get my breather/cap/separator plumbed and mounted, i'll start on the interior.. there's some cleaning (PO had let a dog in the car.. hair everywhere) and start mounting/wiring goodies like the WBo2, gauges, and blitz SBC-iD Power Meter-iD and DC II turbo timer.
I should have plenty of time to get all this done, since the next major purchase is going to likely be a stage 3 sheptrans or similar. I'll probably have to save for 4 to six weeks to be able to afford that outright.
I should have plenty of time to get all this done, since the next major purchase is going to likely be a stage 3 sheptrans or similar. I'll probably have to save for 4 to six weeks to be able to afford that outright.
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
:facepalm:
My two 45deg 2.5" mandrel bends showed up alright... and they are aluminum. I failed to read the auction properly. Now i have to order 304 stainless mandrel bends from votionspeed, i guess. So stupid of me. I searched ebay for "stainless 2.5 45" and assumed the auction was for what i wanted. WRONG! It simply contained 2.5" stainless t bolt clamps... and they're REALLY shitty ones, at that.
My two 45deg 2.5" mandrel bends showed up alright... and they are aluminum. I failed to read the auction properly. Now i have to order 304 stainless mandrel bends from votionspeed, i guess. So stupid of me. I searched ebay for "stainless 2.5 45" and assumed the auction was for what i wanted. WRONG! It simply contained 2.5" stainless t bolt clamps... and they're REALLY shitty ones, at that.
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
Got my battery switch mounted. Now i just gotta wait for it to warm up so i can remove the tail light and get the plastic shavings out that the drill left.
I still need to figure out how to keep the battery box from rocking/distorting when i bolt it down, as it's on kind of a "hump".
I still need to figure out how to keep the battery box from rocking/distorting when i bolt it down, as it's on kind of a "hump".
