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Mil-Spec engine wiring harness


G Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 828035 posted 09/09/09 07:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Has anyone built one yet? I'd like to build one w/ raychem. I'd like to get rid of all my old 17 year old wires.



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TylerAdamson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 828057 posted 09/09/09 08:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
There is a huge thread over on Honda Tech about mil-spec wiring and every time I look at it I want to dive into a new project. Thread can be seen here.



1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD FP3565 Powered
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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 828154 posted 09/09/09 11:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It wouldn't be a cheap progect the pin crimps are high then a bag of the insert tools (red and whites) as the military call them. Then the pins canon plugs, rubber heat shrink and mesh covers. Everything could be found on ebay as well as the sheilded wire but the hard part is finding enough ends for the sensors, injectors, ecu etc. If I attacked a project like this I would want everything new. But searching out an aircraft scrap yard might save hundreds on the plugs and wire. He the militatry uses old wire why can't we. Yes your tax dollars hard at work. All the Apaches when they rolled out of Mesa in 83-85 had harnesses built from vietnam era intruder harnesses, thats the main reason I hate to wire because it was daily we had a wire gremelin.

crimp 1
crimp 2

cannon plug



92 GVR4 0475/1000
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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 828342 posted 09/10/09 03:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Dam honda boys have nothing else to do I'm wondering if the smaller gauge wire will matter on certain items on the vr4? I didn't expect it to be so expensive



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 828348 posted 09/10/09 03:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I wouldn't go smaller gauge than factory.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 828360 posted 09/10/09 03:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What about all the different sensor harness plugs and jacks needed?



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misterfixit
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 828364 posted 09/10/09 03:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
D38999 connectors can be had on rswww, digi key or farnell. they come as a set with the insert tool and pins if you order them right. The biggest pain is the crimp tool.. but they are easy to get also.

Soriou is a good manufacturer of connectors and their website has a very useful catalog. The part number works like this
D38999/25 WC35PN

D38999 is the type of connector standard.
/25 is the style of connector (differen numbers for plug, receptacle etc..)
W this letter denotes the finish of the connector(w=cad plated ally)
C size, make sure this matches if you want them to fit together.
35 insert layout (what pins, how many, where) make sure these match too.
P p=pins s= sockets. Make sure you have one of each in a pair.
N this letter is from (a,b,c,d,e,n) and denotes the foolproof keying.

You will find the souriou catalog here: click

The inserts layouts are explained in mil-std-1560. You can get to all the mil specs through the defense standardisation program at www.dsp.dla.mil. poke abouk through specs and standards until you get to click just type in the numerical portion of the standard you require. 38999 will get all the styles of connector.

I'll have a rummage through a raychem catalog if anyone is after data for specific products. I'll have a poke around and see if i can find it online too.

38999 connectors are about £15/connector but you need to order without a C of C

Hope this helps.

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
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Bimmubishi
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 828989 posted 09/12/09 03:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
G- we've done a few. This is a photo of Bill's. We're doing a Motec M4 in a BMW now for which we'll do another harness soon. The tricky and expensive part is getting the right breakouts, bends and crimpers for the job. We found a few good ones on ebay from Aerospace workers.






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89coltgt
Hand Model


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829512 posted 09/14/09 10:56 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had considered doing this on the truck but after seeing the prices and realizing that some of the old plugs would have to be re-used, I decided it is just not worth it. I will be going through and re-routing and eliminating all wires that will not be used, then looming it all up in a high quality flex loom and not the junk stock-type loom.



89 Colt GT-14b, 650's, dsmlink, 2600
89 Colt GT-Stock
88 d50 4g63t, southbend dxd clutch, crower 272's, dsmlink



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blue642
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829517 posted 09/14/09 11:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had thought of doing something similar on 642 when I was stripping down its harness. Was going to use the 1/4 turn locking connectors off my focus's firewall since I just parted it out, but decided it was to much work at the time. I'm going to do it on my 240sx though, as its going to be getting a full redue and custom harness. Kind of glad that I got access to one of those crimpers too. Never relized how pricey they were.

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THEKID
THE CAR HAVE MANY THINS FOR RACE U INTEREST CALL ME
416/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829613 posted 09/14/09 05:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i am in the process of doing my harness with a mill-spec connector so i have one plug that plugs into the firewall.



KID
416/2000
2000 ford explorer sport
2009 lancer ralliart lost it in the divorce
some of my work

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DR1665
Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 833870 posted 09/27/09 02:36 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This thread got me thinking about something I've seen done on several rally cars. Seems like a great thread to keep all the info. I'm planning to:

- relocate all fuses and relays (for circuits I keep) inside the cabin (to the center stack & passenger/co-driver side)
- re-route engine bay harness to inside the the subframe (to preserve integrity in the event of a crash)
- create a separate engine harness with a single connection (bulkhead) to simplify engine/trans removal

I realize the really expensive investment in such a project is going to be the tooling and connectors. That said, what I'm most curious about is the methodology for building the replacement harness and wire selection. I've been looking at tefzel, but curious about quantity and size.

What do you guys think about using strictly red, black, and white? Red for power, black for ground, and white for signal. What size is the bulk of the wiring harness? Isn't it 22 or 24AWG?

Once I figure out how much wire to get, I'll start by mocking up the harness with the engine and all that in the car. There is a case for ripping it out and laying things out on a harness board, but I figure that this might be the best way to keep things organized. I can start at the various components and then choose to follow the OEM harness or deviate as I wish (ie: to locations for a couple bulkhead fittings for the engine/chassis harnesses). Once the new harness is made, I can lay that one out on a board to make a second if needed.

Going full mil-spec, IMO, is overkill and something left to street kiddies with more money than sense. I would just like to relocate the fuses and all that and don't want to hack and splice up a 17 year old harness.

So, any thoughts? Wire size? Quantity? I'm in no rush, but it's something I'd like to do before the end of the year (prior to gutting the shell for a cage).

Thanks, gents.

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89coltgt
Hand Model


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 833914 posted 09/27/09 10:24 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think the smallest wire sizes used in the Mitsu harnesses is closer to an 18 awg wire, going up to 22 024 is taking the wire size down considerably. That said, I think you could definately use a slightly smaller wire size on the signal wires that are not carrying any amount of current. Mitsu sizes there wires in diameter and it is measured in millimeters. You may be able to find out the physical diameter of a certain size awg and convert that to metric dimensions. Lemme look at my wiring info stuff, I think I may have the diameters in there.



89 Colt GT-14b, 650's, dsmlink, 2600
89 Colt GT-Stock
88 d50 4g63t, southbend dxd clutch, crower 272's, dsmlink



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89coltgt
Hand Model


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 833917 posted 09/27/09 10:32 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ok, I found the wires sizes, the smallest diameter I seen being used is .85mm, other sizes I seen were 1.25mm, 2mm, and 3mm. Fwiw, I found this info in the factory engine wiring schematic in my manual on cd.



89 Colt GT-14b, 650's, dsmlink, 2600
89 Colt GT-Stock
88 d50 4g63t, southbend dxd clutch, crower 272's, dsmlink



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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 833947 posted 09/27/09 02:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
the soriou connector book off their website has a rated current per pin size. You can crimp a range of sizes into a given pin size (22d will accept 20, 22 and 24awg, you can get even more variation using little crimp sleeves.)

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index

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DR1665
Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 833960 posted 09/27/09 04:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Okay, so 0.85, 1.25, 2.0, and 3.0mm. I've got that manual on CD and a hard copy of the FSM which details the different harnesses. I spent a little time browsing it yesterday, but will get back into it tonight.

I'll want to check out which devices use the 2mm/3mm sizes. Maybe they could be run on their own circuit or something. Maybe I could just run one size for all of them. Don't know yet. This is all still very much in the brainstorming stages.

The larger wires are obviously such because they stand to carry more current, although I'm thinking most of the sensors on the engine run 5VDC or so with minimal current. Obviously, the alternator, ignition, fuel pump, headlights and whatnot are going to require more current and have special requirements for which I'll have to plan, but I can't imagine many of the sensors and stepper motors using crazy power.

I'm thinking I'll start at the alternator and route the wires straight up towards the valve cover and maybe follow the O2 sensor line. Dunno if that would introduce EMI, so maybe route the alternator and PS leads up and over the motor mount to back by the ignition bits.

Tuck the new leads for the CLT and all that on the radiator cap under and back, meeting up with the TB sensors behind and below the TB.

Run TPS and injectors along their current path beneath the plastic trim to meet up with the ignition bits before routing back behind the intake manifold, where it would all come together into a single harness that would enter the cabin near where the cruise control used to be.

Chassis harness might be worth splitting into two sections, one for each side. I dunno. I realize the headlights are on a single circuit, but if there was redundancy in the system, taking a hit on the passenger side which damaged the harness wouldn't necessarily mean the driver's side lights would fail too.

This is getting exciting. It's almost too bad I've got the rally next weekend or I'd start then!



Brian | 98 Pajero | Gearbox Magazine

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eviLntt
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 834731 posted 09/29/09 02:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I used to do this kind of work on custom boat cables and wire harnesses. This kind of project can get very expensive with parts, and I would imagine rather time consuming. Another thing to consider if you are going to use shielded wire is that it will add some weight to the car. Some of the bigger boat cable sets tipped the scales at 400+ lbs. I am pretty sure I could help out someone who needs parts or tools (maybe even shielded wire), I am still on good terms with the purchaser at my last job.

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1110146 posted 02/22/13 02:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Bump.



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Boostdtalon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1160327 posted 02/17/14 09:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Felt like bringing this thread back from the dead. This is something that intrigues me and I wouldn't mind doing. Especially since unmolested wiring harnesses for our cars is becoming more and more rare with time. If I had the extra money it would be nice to do mil spec harness for the engine harness. I know it would be extremely time consuming and pretty costly.

The only problem I have is that if I was going to go this route, I would rather already have the pieces to set the car up for SD and maybe even an Evo ECU(even though I would rather use ECMLink). I don't have the space right now to allow for a job of this undertaking, so more than likely I'd have to look to a company to build it for me.

I guess if someone really wanted to do this. They should look at someone like rywire or jordan innovations. Unless they could build it themselves.

Rywire custom harness

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1160329 posted 02/17/14 09:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I would buy a sd harness as well. Group buy?



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Boostdtalon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1160335 posted 02/17/14 10:38 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Haha sure thing! As long as it's carbon fiber infused with titanium wiring.....

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1160337 posted 02/17/14 10:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I know my previous Galant, 981/2000 had mil spec wiring done to it. I don't remember any details, you would have to look the car up on this forum or elsewhere.



1226/2000

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raptorWagon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1160574 posted 02/19/14 01:17 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It's still so much easier to just say cannon plug that mil spec wiring connectors...


Even Google knows what Cannon Plugs are and Cannon plug pliers lol!


That being said, all the wiring on a Military aircraft is usually no bigger than 14awg unless it actually requires 10-12 gauge.



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79 Galant Sigma Wagon
88 Fiji Blue Starion
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Edited by raptorreed (02/19/14 01:24 PM)

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Paddy1337
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1160576 posted 02/19/14 01:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Mil-Spec? We just call it army-proof (it only fits one way)... j/k j/k

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Boostdtalon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1160583 posted 02/19/14 02:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Yeah the military isn't the only ones to use those. I used them at the railroad as well as the Navy.

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