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Re: BLUE SMOKE!!!!!!!


Terry Posten
Old Balls
425/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829331 posted 09/13/09 07:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Oil past the oil rings on the turbo. Caused by too much crank case pressure.

You will need to clean out all the intake piping and get the crank case pressures down.



1992 Galant VR4 click
2010 Outlander GT S-AWC Premium w/nav (wife daily)
2010 Jaguar XF Premium Luxury (my daily

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829341 posted 09/13/09 07:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Tomorrow, I am going to run the PCV valve to the intake manifold. I am going to let it run for 20 minutes tomorrow.

Here is my intake + my findings.










Kenny @ Dynotech Tuning
[email protected]







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Brianawd
Higher Launch RPM
439/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829342 posted 09/13/09 07:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Is that a real MHI 16g or is it a china 16g. As for you miss. Clean the Maf that is now socked in oil.



1992 Gaylant vr4 #439/1000
11.1at131 562awhp/484awtq
E85 FP3052 parted out
05 EB EVO SSL 11.48at124mph
450awhp/400awtq New 2.3 e85 hks 7460r
05 JEEP liberty CRD DD/ski slut
200hp/385tq


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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829345 posted 09/13/09 07:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I dont think the oil went that far to reach the MAF but I will check now.

And its a real MHI 16G turbo.



Kenny @ Dynotech Tuning
[email protected]








Edited by Kenny_Kline (09/13/09 07:47 PM)

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829350 posted 09/13/09 08:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Oil never made it up to the MAF. I just pulled the piping off the turbo and not mouch oil. The pulled piping off the TB and MAF and dry as can be. No oil made it through the intercooler. This didnt happen at any high boost levels. This happened at idle...



Kenny @ Dynotech Tuning
[email protected]







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turbowop
Hard Snarker
1051/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829351 posted 09/13/09 08:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
When I pushed oil out the turbo seals due to high crankcase pressures, it was so much that it was dripping out from between the exhaust gaskets and out the flex section. It was pretty bad.

My turbo was the same. Zero shaft play.

So...are you still parting out the car?



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (09/13/09 08:01 PM)

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829354 posted 09/13/09 08:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I may part it out. I am waiting a week regardless before I sell one thing, excpt my dash badge which I was offered $65. I will sell that no matter what.

Did you have to replace any seals in the turbo?

Hopefully, I can fix this thing back up and running. I am not tearing this motor down again.


Edited by Kenny_Kline (09/13/09 08:06 PM)

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
1051/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829400 posted 09/13/09 10:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Unless the shaft play is abnormal, like wheels scraping housings, you don't need to replace seals. If it's that bad you have bigger things to worry about than just seals anyway. The seals are just metal rings that work off of pressure differential, like piston rings. By blocking the crankcase ventilation, you make it so they can't work correctly.



I ended up installing an Evo3 16g on the car because I made the mistake of thinking the turbo was blown. Live and learn.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (09/13/09 10:32 PM)

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829404 posted 09/13/09 10:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well I have no shaft play at all. Spins freely. PERFECT!

I will give it a try tomorrow and see if crank case pressure straightens up also I will do a compression test

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829508 posted 09/14/09 10:41 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Here are my findings:

I routed PCV valve to intake manifold. I let the vent tube on valve cover vent. I started engine and let it warm up. Instantly, I was getting high crankcase pressure. Vent tube off valve cover was putting out a white mist blowing cold air, high pressure. After about 30 seconds, exhaust started puffing white smoke. Alot of white smoke. I let warm up to about 170 degrees and I revd the motor up. It put out LOTS of blue smoke mixed with white smoke.

I shut down engine and pulled the spark plugs. Cylinder 3 was steaming. Fuel I pulled the fuel pump fuse, ignition module disconnected, TB set at WOT and performed a compression test. From left to right standing in front of the motor, here are the results.

Cyl#4 60psi
Cyl#3 75psi
Cyl#2 165psi
Cyl#1 170psi

Safe to say a head gasket???

Here is the deal, I will keep the motor if its a head gasket issue. No big deal. If its anything more than that, I am done. I dont know how the head gasket would fail. I have ARP head studs and a 4layer MLS head gasket. Had the block and head prepped corrrectly. I sprayed a light coat of copper spray on head gasket.

Discuss!



Kenny @ Dynotech Tuning
[email protected]







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prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
1284/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829522 posted 09/14/09 11:16 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
you did it wrong....

ok ok anyways, it's possible you got a piece of dirt or something under the head. I redid a head gasket for a friend on a sr20det because it leaked. I pulled it off and found that whoever did it got a piece of grass between the head and gasket.

yea it happens.

Well it's a MLS gasket so you can pull it and reuse it so start wrenching and let us know.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy


Edited by prove_it (09/14/09 11:18 AM)

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829537 posted 09/14/09 12:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I will have head off saturday night and get some pics up. Going to attempt a quick head gasket swap sunday and see how it runs

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Struc
Not all filled in


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829538 posted 09/14/09 12:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah, sure sounds like a bad head gasket. However, my guess is that it blew the turbo seals as well, because that much smoke, after 30 seconds, usually means turbo. I should know - my brand new EVOIII-16G blew its seal for some reason. Car ran normal, but after about 30-60 seconds, the smoke would start pouring out. Just got done putting a used small 16g back on the car as a replacement for now.

If it was burning it somehow, it would start smoking right away, but since it's leaking out the turbo, it takes a minute for it to heat up enough to start smoking.



Curt Shambeau
92 GVR4 56/1000 (SOLD)
09 Lancer Ralliart (SOLD)
96 Spyder GS(t) (SOLD) - My 4G64 Spyder Website
1987 Montero SWB (Wideblock 4g64 build in progress)


Edited by Struc (09/14/09 12:03 PM)

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Damills
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829547 posted 09/14/09 12:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had a bad PCV valve on my colt once and it blew massive clouds of smoke out and ran like crap. The car would die when I took off my oil filler cap or dipstick also. I went and bought a new PCV valve and it started up and ran perfect. It took me 2 months of messing with it to figure this out.... i wanted to crush my car as well

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829558 posted 09/14/09 01:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Forget about the turbo. The turbo isnt causing the low compression numbers. I am going to swap the head gasket and see if that brings the numbers back up. If it does, I will move on to the turbo and see what turns up.

Going to do a wet test in a little bit just to make sure rings are still good.

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1990ggsxnj
Member ++
1578/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829564 posted 09/14/09 02:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Waiting for the numbers. Bet it won't help much. Hoping it doesn't.



"Is that Spool Drool? EWW!"
90GGSX Blue-Chesapeake
91GVR4 Nile Black-Sidney (Sid)

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829571 posted 09/14/09 02:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So I redid the entire compression test. Operating temp, performed a dry test and a wet test.

Dry Test results:
Cyl#4 75psi
Cyl#3 75psi
Cyl#2 160psi
Cyl#1 175psi

Wet test results: (with cap full of oil)
Cyl#4 90psi
Cyl#3 95psi
Cyl#2 175psi
Cyl#1 205psi

I am getting a white milky residue coming out of the valve cover vent tube. Def oil in the mix but its white and runny.

Still think only a head gasket or is it possible I have ring damage? I am getting a 15-25psi increase with oil



Kenny @ Dynotech Tuning
[email protected]







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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829603 posted 09/14/09 04:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I am going to hold of from removing the head. I talked to the machine shop today and he thinks my rings are gas washed because of a possibly leaky injector (fuel press drops to 0 when I shut car off). Personally, I think its an isolated incident with the head gasket. Of course thats what I think because thats what I want it to be. Correct me if I am wrong but if these passages started leaking on the head gasket then wouldnt that cause high crank case pressure?

[/



I am NOT going to do a leak down test. What I am going to do is do a reverse leak down test on the crank case system. I am going to put 100psi to the valve cover vent tube, block of the PCV valve, and see if air comes out from the cylinders. If it doesnt, then its not my rings. If it does, then its my rings.

Would this method work the way I wanted it to?

I have 207.3 miles on this motor, I just checked the odometer.

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
Too Clean
1881/2000
50/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829606 posted 09/14/09 05:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That sounds like a bad idea. What about all of the other points for leaking then? Your turbo oil drain, your valve cover gasket, etc. Why are you opposed to a regular leak down? It will tell you all the same only your cylinders are meant to hold that pressure.

Just because your fuel pressure doesn't hold after you shut the car off doesn't mean you have an injector leaking. Myself and many others have stated that aftermarket pumps/afprs have this problem.



-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829610 posted 09/14/09 05:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
A regular leak down test will do NOTHING for me. If I do a leak down test from the top, it will put pressure on the rings AND the head gasket. If the head gasket is suspect and compression is leaking into the oil return port then I will get high crank case pressure.

I think I am only going to find out by pulling the head and looking at gasket to see traces of a leak.

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Brianawd
Higher Launch RPM
439/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829643 posted 09/14/09 07:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
A regular leak down test will do NOTHING for me. If I do a leak down test from the top, it will put pressure on the rings AND the head gasket. If the head gasket is suspect and compression is leaking into the oil return port then I will get high crank case pressure.




Please tell me your fucking joking. If you put 100psi into your crankcase all your going to do is blow out seals. Funny how every Shop in the world will do a leak down test to find the problem weather it be head gasket,bad rings, bad valves. But for some reason it will not work for you.



1992 Gaylant vr4 #439/1000
11.1at131 562awhp/484awtq
E85 FP3052 parted out
05 EB EVO SSL 11.48at124mph
450awhp/400awtq New 2.3 e85 hks 7460r
05 JEEP liberty CRD DD/ski slut
200hp/385tq



Edited by Brianawd (09/14/09 07:13 PM)

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Lonewolf64
Obviously the answer is......
889/1000
1247/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829645 posted 09/14/09 07:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Kenny always posts for advice, only to completely disregard it. I think we should use reverse psychology on him if we want to help...its like a game!

So Kenny don't do a leak down test!



1992 Galant VR-4 #889
1991 Galant VR-4 #1247
2007 Civic Si DD

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
1051/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829647 posted 09/14/09 07:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Kenny thought a leakdown test will show bad valve seals and now he thinks shooting 100psi into the crankcase is going to show him the problem now?

Like Brian said, say goodbye to all the seals in the motor if you do that.

Kenny, maybe it is time to part out and crush the car.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (09/14/09 07:34 PM)

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Kenny_Kline
belligerent idiot
1370/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829660 posted 09/14/09 07:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I never said a leakdown test would show bad valve seals.

I am taking everyone advice but some things dont ad up to what everyone is saying. A leakdown test wont give me an answer. I already know a leak down test is going to show a leak into the crankcase. I dont need do to the test to know that. But a leak down test wont tell me if its getting past the ring OR getting out these passages:





So my idea to do a reverse leak down test might not of been the smartest idea and I wasnt sure which is why I asked before I did it and you guys sit here and laugh? I think its fucking hilarious that I am willing to test everything and get very minimal tech info but when I make a suggestion which at the time, didnt seem stupid until I thought about it, I get a record seting response from people laughing at me? Seriously? Very interesting!



Kenny @ Dynotech Tuning
[email protected]







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turbowop
Hard Snarker
1051/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 829666 posted 09/14/09 08:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Quote:

I never said a leakdown test would show bad valve seals.





Quote:

I think the only real answer to this is to pull the valve cover and do a leak down test. If it starts coming out from the valve seals, there is my answer.











-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051

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