What I need to run E85!

[alansupra94]

Well after looking into a few things and realizing my graduate school laboratory is 1 block away from the only E85 gas station in Northern NJ, I realized it is calling for me. So what exactly would I need to run E85? I already have a larger pump, adjustable FPR and 880cc injectors. Is there anything else that I need?

Thanks,
Alan

 

i am kinda interested in this i never knew what was needed to do e85 conversions

 

[trunks]

You need some way to tune it. DSMlink would be easiest. There should be lots of info around here for you to check out too.

 

[alansupra94]

^^^^

I already have a Ostrich 2.0. I guess I should have specified should I get Teflon coated lines? Is there any special seals I need for the injectors?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[trunks]

You're opening a can of worms about the rubber and e85. The answer is no but most people haven't been running it long enough to know if eventually the stock system will eventually disintegrate or not.

 

[Chase]

With my experience with it on the old car this is what Id suggest.

Good fuel pump like the new Deatchworks, new Aeromotive or an 044 (NO 255 they get eaten up!)
Better lines, I prefer the Aeroquip hardened rubber with push lock
Tuning - DSM link hands down unless your full race then AEM
A good FPR - Id go with a Fuel Lab if you need a basic one over Aeromotive
Large injectors, depends on your other mods. I will be going with FIC 1150's
Depending on build a better fuel rail

 

[alansupra94]

Do I really need to get a better FPR? I have an Aeromotive one? As for the fuel pump, I will look into getting a better one I suppose (would a Denso Supra pump be okay?). I think my AEM fuel rail will be fine, but I will email AEM what they say. (If the seals on the injector are fine with those rubber gromets, then the fuel rail should be fine).I figured the lines would have to be replaced so thats nothing surprising. I think my 880cc will be fine for my needs. I won't be going about 450hp so I think that 880cc will be fine. Ostrich 2.0 w/ Jackal 2.0 is the same as the DSMLink if not better because I know how to program with it.

So my list just looks like better Teflon lines, good fittings and a better pump. Not a bad trade off for E85 I think. Now for spark plugs, do I need to change them? I heard E85 runs colder....

 

[thecman02]

With spark plugs I'd go back to 6's if you switched to 7. FYI.... my car has 30,000miles on e85 with stock lines, and a 255lph walboro. I'm using a Buchur bolt on FPR which is a SX FPR with a custom machined bottom half. I changed my fuel filter after the first couple tanks and I haven't had any problems. Take those results for what they are worth.

It still isn't a bad idea to get a nice fuel system that will for sure be able to withstand e85 without degradation. One of these days I'll probably finish going through my fuel system.

 

[Dasith]

this might help


click

 

[Dark_Horse]

All of the talk about E85 destroying stock fuel systems is just that...Talk. With E85, the only thing you have to watch out for is injector goo (black sludge like stuff that sticks to injector nozzles). click (injector on left shows the goo. injector on the right shows results of cleaning goo off with gasoline)

Chemist ran an analysis on the goo and it's something in the E85 it's self...Not anything to do with dissolved rubber etc. Here's the entire thread if you care to read it. click

If you get the goo, the way around it is, every month or so, run a tank of Unleaded through the car to clean off the injector goo. Some people never had a problem with it, and others had to run unleaded every couple of weeks to keep the goo away.

I know plenty of DSMers who run Walbro 255 pumps with E85 and none of em have had 1 fail. In fact, the only pumps I've heard of failing with E85 are Supra pumps.

 

[alansupra94]

So the stock metal lines should be fine correct? Its just the ones that I have that connect from the metal line to the fuel rail or FPR (which are stainless steel braided lines). Good news for my Galant that it can keep the Walbro. Bad news for the supra since I might have to change that pump now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

Thanks for all the information Dark_horse. Very informative stuff there. I thought that too since it isn't PURE ethanol, it wouldn't be THAT corrosive. Granted I am sure putting E85 or gasoline through 20 year old rubber isn't the best idea to begin with. I haven't decided what exactly I will do but I will figure it out soon enough. If I can get fittings and Teflon lines for a decent price I will buy them and retrofit both the supra and galant. I needed to buy some lines anyways for the supra since it was a dual feed system so I figured whats the hurt in future proofing it and the galant one shot.

I do not see a huge problem with switching maps and running a tank of regular gasoline every month or so. I might end up having to do that especially if I make a far trip or something.

 

[Chase]

Walboro 255's do fail under e85. I've had 4 go in 2 years. Simple fact. They aren't built to withstand e85, spend the few extra dollars and get something that wont fail.
And here in this area Im associated with numerous shops that have had the same problems. Save yourself the hassle of replacing again.

 

[Dark_Horse]

The only thing I'd replace is the banjo bolt on the top of the fuel filter. Replace it to a straight fitting and run some 6AN line to the fuel rail...But I'd advise that on any setup because the banjo bolt is pretty restrictive.

You will also have to replace your fuel filter after a few hundred miles. E85 will clean out all the junk in your lines/tank and your filter can get clogged up. You may have to replace the fuel filter more than 1 time depending on how much junk your lines/tank have in em.

EDIT: I still have not heard of anyone having a Walbro fail from running E85. There are many, many people in my area who have been running Walbro pumps with E85 for years without issue.

 

[Chase]

You can go with that all you want, Ive had personal issues with 255's failing as have many Performance Shops here in Illinois. None of them will recommend a 255 for e85. Also, 255's dont flow enough to really make power on e85. These are what all shops are recommending for e85 use. Do it right the first time.

click
click
click

 

[alansupra94]

You think temperature might play a factor?

Also if I am going to replace those lines, I might as well get Teflon coated ones to protect it. I suppose I could get an E85 friendly fuel filter (if they exist). If not then changing them isn't too huge of a problem I suppose.

Then again, I have heard of Walbros failing pretty fast even with normal gasoline. Thats why much of the supra community prefers to use Denso pumps. But I mean the worst that could happen for me is that it would fail and at that point I would upgrade to something nice.

Thanks for all the input guys,
Alan

 

[swe_gvr4_1991]

Just giving my "professional" point of view on E85 here.
I am a tanker tuck driver over in Sweden. E85 is available at almost every gas station around the country. We ship E85 in the same containers as we ship gasoline and diesel, just needs to be fully unloaded before loading E85 into the tank.
Tanks or containers are all made of steel or aluminum. There are not one single proven event that E85 would corrode or destroy those metals. Trust me, we have some of the worlds strictest rules on transport of petrolium and alcohol based products. You would not even believe me if i stated how hard the rules are.

I have run E85 for many years on bone stock cars like toyotas from 1980's to my new nissan micra. And everything in between. With no hickups or failures what so ever. The thing that fail is the pump if it's too old since E85 is so dry and alcohol cleans out any greese that once was lubricating the pump. Yes gasoline contains additives that do just that, lubricate. Volvo and SAAB all ships out cars that are E85 compatible since many years. Brazil and latin america gets many cars that are exactly the same we drive over here, only thing differs is the software.

I am also running my old GVR4 on E85. Just keep an eye out for leaks on these old cars. Once you get a leak on E85 you need to address it right away since E85 is more explosive than gasoline.

This is my opinion on E85. It's the best fuel around for a tuned car, but it has it's downsides too. Like i stated before.

Stop scaring people about E85. Let them try. Failures can be had on a new car too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Alan, with the tuning tools you have i would say you're good to go. If you don't have a wide band yet i recommend you get that. And keep the gasoline AFR settings since it's easier to remember once tuning with the ostrich.

 

[Barnes]

http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/chemcomp.asp

 

[alansupra94]

Sweet! I plan on trying this out and see what happens in the summer (since I will have my supra running then). I will post my results!