Twin-Charging?

[desant78]

You put some bad thoughts into my head curtis.....

First on the VGT discussion page, you mentioned this, and I was able to justify it's too crazy, but only for a while. Once I finished my 16g powered g-ride, I began searching for a new project(still am), but it has to be something odd and not straight forward. So lately I have been putting a lot effort into a design for twin charging, and you mention it again in the supercharger thread, referencing the same lotus video that inspired me, and the AC clutch idea.

So I post this video, which is me daydreaming about what to do to my vr4, which is dangerous because that's how I ended up with 2 vr4's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif

Twin-Charge VW design

Anyone have experience performing an air-bypass like VW does? I almost think a second throttle body would suffice. Also anyone retro fit a fancy electromagnetic pulley onto anything, ever? Since this is general discussion, lets discuss

 

[curtis]

Already ahead of you Look up the factory bypass for a milly s click me


I'm just here to help feed your habit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[curtis]

also look at the millenia superchargers and read up on them. But instead of one or two of the bypass valves you could do a small throttle body like a 2.4 nissan there like 52mm's

 

[rdomeck]

Hmm.... So is it turbo super charged or super turbo charged?

 

[desant78]

Quoting curtis:
also look at the millenia superchargers and read up on them. But instead of one or two of the bypass valves you could do a small throttle body like a 2.4 nissan there like 52mm's



I was thinking a drive by wire throttle body, since the only concern is closed or open operation. thanks for the tip I'll take a look into those throttle bodies and those super chargers.

 

[desant78]

Quoting rdomeck:
Hmm.... So is it turbo super charged or super turbo charged?



Super-Turbo-Charged is my vote. Like mitsu's Super All Wheel Control (S-AWC). Plus we love turbo charging right? so it's just a super cool way to do so /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif

 

[Galantvr41062]

Twin charge? Turbo and nitrous, done. If you do it, turbo then supercharger (positive displacement roots style).

 

[ktmrider]

Look at the FATT STI twin charged Scooby.

I'd also check the Rotrex brand SC, seem to be a bit more compact but still efficient.

 

[dustyduff]

There was a thread on DSMTuners a while ago, but I can't remember the guys name. Ray Peters??? He had a twin charger setup using a turbo and supercharger. There should be a few videos on youtube too.

Compound turbo setups are pretty common any more, at least by looking on the DSMLink forums. There are a couple guys who have setups up and running.

 

[curtis]

Well if anyone ever tackles this I've done alot of research on the stuff and have sold a bunch of blowers over the years and have a few m67 I still need to get cleaned up. The miller cycle engine in the millenia makes better use of the blowers and well, they build a damn nice unit for them. It's lysholm type supercharger with twin screw design that fricking eats air and is super compact with phenolic twin screw rotors. About the size of a factory ac compressor or a little small than on the VR4 and about twice as long and has a 1.2 ci displacement a 03/04 cobra is a 1.8ci in comparison. The milly flows about 600cfm a 65lbs/min turbo, 35R etc is 1000 to 1200 range dependent on various variables. It has a pressurized oiling system and has dual drains with a top hat that has a built in bypass. Thing is there's only one company I found that rebuilds them and the core deposit is like 300 for them and said company will buy cores if you ever see a bad one at the junkyard. I had a friend that use to redo them but mazda lost the supplier that would sell the bearings, seals and freeze plugs inside that house the shaft nuts. But alot of research after teardown could probably get all the parts for under 40 bucks. As for the shim thickness stainless gaskets some silk thread and a few dots of rtv would seal things up between the sections.

The beauty of these little things is they spin up like 30psi from the factory so actually we could probably use one of these as well as a smaller size turbo like a 30R or 35R with a custom crank pulley and never over rev them and not worry about a magnetic clutch. If you have the throttle body off laying on a work bench and place your hand over the outlet one flick of the pulley throws your hand off.

In the junkyard there easy to take off with a few screw drivers, 10, 12, 14mm and a little time. Total removal should take like an hour. If the outlet is super oily or you see dripping oil on the rotors stop its popped a seal and not really worth the time. The good units will have rotors covered in normal intake trac goo up but some purple power and totally awesome mixed together and soaked for a few hours will have them light tan and ready to eat. Bad units bring 100 to 200 on ebay and good ones up in the 6 to 7 range. But always check the pulley which is built like a balancer with an elastomeric core they sometimes are bad. I always razor blade the belt and check that first.


Here's a link I found years ago

2 of these units on a miata. Thats like having a 2.6 whipple. Just a bit over kill and crude but screw it, Looks like he was on his way with it until the jb weld blew off. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif Posted this to show the physical size of everything mainly.

 

[bazeng]

You guys should take a look at this project from Australia.

Not exactly twin charging but compound turbo MITSUBISHI VAN!
Close enough?

click

 

[belize1334]

I periodically think about using a SC to feed a turbo. Most people consider this backward since the SC limits the power you can make. But, if you pick the SC to flow the amount of air that you want for max power, and tune your turbo boost level to flow the same amount of air, once the turbo spools its drawing everything the SC is feeding it so there's no pressure rise across the SC, which is effectively passive at that point. So you get the response of a SC at low rpm and dip-in, but once the turbo spools you get higher efficiency and no parasitic losses. The only issue is that, as with any intercooled SC design, the throttle body has to be placed at the SC inlet so your throttled volume is huge.