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timing belt kit
- Thread starter ercp98
- Start date
Andy_S
Well-known member
I would stick with OEM when it comes to timing.
first rule of the 4g63, NEVER us anything else but OEM for timing belts, if your revving high the kevelar belts are ok(HKS,Greddy,Tomei,Toda). for water pumps i have used auto parts store ones on the last few that have gone bad. they ones i used i got from NAPA.
Lancer99
Well-known member
I have toda t-belt and balance belt. Someone told me that its garenteed not to break. Bought for $300 bucks, don't know if that was a good buy?
boostedinaz
Well-known member
I always use OEM timing and balance belt no matter what. Although that didn't keep me from having to do this job over again today. My OEM balance shaft belt shredded and almost took out the timing belt with it. I spent the day cleaning rubber bits from my timing cover and replacing belts. Only had 12K on it when it went. At least it didn't take out the timing belt. /ubbthreads/images//graemlins/applause.gif
ercp98
Well-known member
^^ my thoughts at the moment. i guess it is a crap shoot. thanks for the link and opinions.
gvr4ever
Well-known member
That's really cheap. I don't always believe that you gotta spend money to get something good, but that kit is almost too cheap.
Maybe get it, then get a Mitsu or Napa t-belt or something.
Maybe get it, then get a Mitsu or Napa t-belt or something.
ls4546
Well-known member
Quote:
first rule of the 4g63, NEVER us anything else but OEM for timing belts, if your revving high the kevelar belts are ok(HKS,Greddy,Tomei,Toda). for water pumps i have used auto parts store ones on the last few that have gone bad. they ones i used i got from NAPA.
I learned that the hard way, 2 heads with bent valves later /ubbthreads/images//graemlins/blush.gif I finally got it right /ubbthreads/images//graemlins/rofl.gif
Quote:
HAHA OEM is the same as any other... I dont see the purpose of paying those f***ing assholes not like they have a special rubber company that builds timing belts for them.
Not all belts are created equal. The reason OEM is more $ is becasue all the OEM products adhear to a much stricter guidline than most aftermarket auto stores. If you choose to go after market, go with either NAPA or Carquest. They'll be more expensinve than orielly's, advance auto, and auto zone, but hey, you get what you pay for. /ubbthreads/images//graemlins/banghead.gif
first rule of the 4g63, NEVER us anything else but OEM for timing belts, if your revving high the kevelar belts are ok(HKS,Greddy,Tomei,Toda). for water pumps i have used auto parts store ones on the last few that have gone bad. they ones i used i got from NAPA.
I learned that the hard way, 2 heads with bent valves later /ubbthreads/images//graemlins/blush.gif I finally got it right /ubbthreads/images//graemlins/rofl.gif
Quote:
HAHA OEM is the same as any other... I dont see the purpose of paying those f***ing assholes not like they have a special rubber company that builds timing belts for them.
Not all belts are created equal. The reason OEM is more $ is becasue all the OEM products adhear to a much stricter guidline than most aftermarket auto stores. If you choose to go after market, go with either NAPA or Carquest. They'll be more expensinve than orielly's, advance auto, and auto zone, but hey, you get what you pay for. /ubbthreads/images//graemlins/banghead.gif
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Wizardawd
Well-known member
Not always true.
Many so-called "OEM" parts are made by the same aftermarket companies that you are knocking.
If I recall, most of the domestic belts (Dodge, FOrd, etc) use Gates or Goodyear. Over 80% of the batteries in the country are made by one company. Ford Motorcraft oil filters are made by Purolator. There are even more examples, that's just ones that I know.
I have used Gates/Goodyear/Dayco belts for years with no problems relating directly to them. If a belt failed within a month or even a week...chances are it was installed incorrectly or the part that is being driven is failing. Water pumps, have used Advance Auto Parts ones and have yet to replace one of theirs. Alternators....I have occasionally had bad luck with them (Mostly Duralast from Auto Zone), but I knew it was going to go bad just by looking at it (saw a wire pinched between the rectifier and case). But, I was 7 hours from home and it was the only one in town. Took my chance and it lasted 1 week b4 it failed. Next one has lasted since 2004.
Just saying that you can't knock these companies hard...they have been making these parts for years. If they were so bad, they would have gone out of business by now.
Besides, soon, they will be all we have left. Cutoff is currently 1994 from the Dodge/Mitsu dealer. In other words, next year they will probably stop making all 1g specific parts.
My advice...do some research and then decide for yourself.
Wiz
Many so-called "OEM" parts are made by the same aftermarket companies that you are knocking.
If I recall, most of the domestic belts (Dodge, FOrd, etc) use Gates or Goodyear. Over 80% of the batteries in the country are made by one company. Ford Motorcraft oil filters are made by Purolator. There are even more examples, that's just ones that I know.
I have used Gates/Goodyear/Dayco belts for years with no problems relating directly to them. If a belt failed within a month or even a week...chances are it was installed incorrectly or the part that is being driven is failing. Water pumps, have used Advance Auto Parts ones and have yet to replace one of theirs. Alternators....I have occasionally had bad luck with them (Mostly Duralast from Auto Zone), but I knew it was going to go bad just by looking at it (saw a wire pinched between the rectifier and case). But, I was 7 hours from home and it was the only one in town. Took my chance and it lasted 1 week b4 it failed. Next one has lasted since 2004.
Just saying that you can't knock these companies hard...they have been making these parts for years. If they were so bad, they would have gone out of business by now.
Besides, soon, they will be all we have left. Cutoff is currently 1994 from the Dodge/Mitsu dealer. In other words, next year they will probably stop making all 1g specific parts.
My advice...do some research and then decide for yourself.
Wiz
ercp98
Well-known member
i looked at parts dinasaur for their timing belt kit. they have it priced at $199. the only difference is that parts dinasaur's kit came with the hydraulic tensioner and the ebay one did not. the price difference is suggestive of the actual price for the hydraulic tensioner ($85 at parts dinasaur). so putting aside the brand names for the belts, their prices are very comparable to each other. satan's price however is $80 for the t-belt only and $125 to $150 for the water pump.
bottom line, i'll probably go with after market from "reputable" parts store. NAPA has been very good to me lately with parts that i have used.
bottom line, i'll probably go with after market from "reputable" parts store. NAPA has been very good to me lately with parts that i have used.
Quote:
If they were so bad, they would have gone out of business by now.
Well that is one untrue statement. I cannot count high enough to include all the businesses that have been hugely successful selling crap products, especially if they are priced attractively. And every one of you (and me too) will probably eat their food, wear their clothes, surf the net with their computer, drive their cars, or buy, sell, or use their products at some point today.
I don't believe all belts are the same. Probably the vast majority of timing belt engine applications are not interference engines or high performance engines. So most of the time the consequence of a cheap belt failure is the car quits running or the engine just does not put a high demand on the belt, so there is no incentive for generic belt manufacturers to make an unusually superior belt product.
Go OEM or Kevlar.
Mike R.
If they were so bad, they would have gone out of business by now.
Well that is one untrue statement. I cannot count high enough to include all the businesses that have been hugely successful selling crap products, especially if they are priced attractively. And every one of you (and me too) will probably eat their food, wear their clothes, surf the net with their computer, drive their cars, or buy, sell, or use their products at some point today.
I don't believe all belts are the same. Probably the vast majority of timing belt engine applications are not interference engines or high performance engines. So most of the time the consequence of a cheap belt failure is the car quits running or the engine just does not put a high demand on the belt, so there is no incentive for generic belt manufacturers to make an unusually superior belt product.
Go OEM or Kevlar.
Mike R.
Quote:
Not always true.
Many so-called "OEM" parts are made by the same aftermarket companies that you are knocking.
If I recall, most of the domestic belts (Dodge, FOrd, etc) use Gates or Goodyear. Over 80% of the batteries in the country are made by one company. Ford Motorcraft oil filters are made by Purolator. There are even more examples, that's just ones that I know.
I have used Gates/Goodyear/Dayco belts for years with no problems relating directly to them. If a belt failed within a month or even a week...chances are it was installed incorrectly or the part that is being driven is failing. Water pumps, have used Advance Auto Parts ones and have yet to replace one of theirs. Alternators....I have occasionally had bad luck with them (Mostly Duralast from Auto Zone), but I knew it was going to go bad just by looking at it (saw a wire pinched between the rectifier and case). But, I was 7 hours from home and it was the only one in town. Took my chance and it lasted 1 week b4 it failed. Next one has lasted since 2004.
Just saying that you can't knock these companies hard...they have been making these parts for years. If they were so bad, they would have gone out of business by now.
Besides, soon, they will be all we have left. Cutoff is currently 1994 from the Dodge/Mitsu dealer. In other words, next year they will probably stop making all 1g specific parts.
My advice...do some research and then decide for yourself.
Wiz
True information. The difference, is the parts coming from the OEM have met OEM specifications and are tested periodically. The parts sold by the supplier to every auto parts place, are not. They are parts they just run through or are rejects from the OEM lot of parts.
Not always true.
Many so-called "OEM" parts are made by the same aftermarket companies that you are knocking.
If I recall, most of the domestic belts (Dodge, FOrd, etc) use Gates or Goodyear. Over 80% of the batteries in the country are made by one company. Ford Motorcraft oil filters are made by Purolator. There are even more examples, that's just ones that I know.
I have used Gates/Goodyear/Dayco belts for years with no problems relating directly to them. If a belt failed within a month or even a week...chances are it was installed incorrectly or the part that is being driven is failing. Water pumps, have used Advance Auto Parts ones and have yet to replace one of theirs. Alternators....I have occasionally had bad luck with them (Mostly Duralast from Auto Zone), but I knew it was going to go bad just by looking at it (saw a wire pinched between the rectifier and case). But, I was 7 hours from home and it was the only one in town. Took my chance and it lasted 1 week b4 it failed. Next one has lasted since 2004.
Just saying that you can't knock these companies hard...they have been making these parts for years. If they were so bad, they would have gone out of business by now.
Besides, soon, they will be all we have left. Cutoff is currently 1994 from the Dodge/Mitsu dealer. In other words, next year they will probably stop making all 1g specific parts.
My advice...do some research and then decide for yourself.
Wiz
True information. The difference, is the parts coming from the OEM have met OEM specifications and are tested periodically. The parts sold by the supplier to every auto parts place, are not. They are parts they just run through or are rejects from the OEM lot of parts.
Quote:
Go OEM or Kevlar.
If you looked at the construction of the belts, the s-glass and Kevlar reinforcement is in the back (non-cog) side of the belt. Not the cogs. So, your only advantage to running these is for the balance shaft belt which has a tendancy to totally rip through the belt (which I contend is the result of tightening the belt too tight, and not to spec.) In the 50+ belts I've chanaged, I've only seen one main timing belt break all the way through. It was a case, where some bolt in the timing cover came out or was left inside the cover and it worked itself loose and rubbed against the belt until it literaly wore through one complete side of the belt. At that point the tension was too great and finished it off. All the other belts have always failed on the cogs, by ripping several cogs off.
Bottom line, save your money on the Kevlar timing belt, buy the OEM one and install a Kevlar balance shaft belt.
Go OEM or Kevlar.
If you looked at the construction of the belts, the s-glass and Kevlar reinforcement is in the back (non-cog) side of the belt. Not the cogs. So, your only advantage to running these is for the balance shaft belt which has a tendancy to totally rip through the belt (which I contend is the result of tightening the belt too tight, and not to spec.) In the 50+ belts I've chanaged, I've only seen one main timing belt break all the way through. It was a case, where some bolt in the timing cover came out or was left inside the cover and it worked itself loose and rubbed against the belt until it literaly wore through one complete side of the belt. At that point the tension was too great and finished it off. All the other belts have always failed on the cogs, by ripping several cogs off.
Bottom line, save your money on the Kevlar timing belt, buy the OEM one and install a Kevlar balance shaft belt.
Dialcaliper
Well-known member
Just from a design standpoint, if you really don't want to use the OEM Belt, go with the Gates Racing belt. Power Enterprise also has an improved version 2 belt now.
The belt itself is not kevlar (neither are any of the other aftermarket belts), it it glass-fiber, which slightly more pliable. (power enterprise uses some kevlar, some glass)
The tooth jacket is made of nylon instead of nylon/aramid(kevlar) blend (HKS and Power Enterprise v2). Kevlar is a little slippery. The only kevlar in the belt is actually reinforcement within the teeth themselves, not the actual gripping surface.
The most important difference is that the teeth are made of a nitrile elastomer instead of plain butyl rubber (which is still used in at least the HKS and older PWR belts. Power Enterprise v2 also uses elastomer). Think of it as the same difference between rubber and polyurethane.
The HKS and Power Enterprises v2 belts are both probably stronger and stiffer in tension than the Gates belt, but a little pliability and the better nitrile rubber aren't necessarily bad.
If you look at their websites or google, most have diagrams showing off their construction.
Gates is also an approved manufacturer of OEM belts for Mitsubishi, and you'd think their aftermarket belts would meet or exceed the durability standards of the OEM belts.
But really, unless you have very stiff upgraded springs, aggressive cams and a righteous rev-limit, the only thing you'll gain over the OEM is that it won't break down as quickly from heat cycling and age.
The belt itself is not kevlar (neither are any of the other aftermarket belts), it it glass-fiber, which slightly more pliable. (power enterprise uses some kevlar, some glass)
The tooth jacket is made of nylon instead of nylon/aramid(kevlar) blend (HKS and Power Enterprise v2). Kevlar is a little slippery. The only kevlar in the belt is actually reinforcement within the teeth themselves, not the actual gripping surface.
The most important difference is that the teeth are made of a nitrile elastomer instead of plain butyl rubber (which is still used in at least the HKS and older PWR belts. Power Enterprise v2 also uses elastomer). Think of it as the same difference between rubber and polyurethane.
The HKS and Power Enterprises v2 belts are both probably stronger and stiffer in tension than the Gates belt, but a little pliability and the better nitrile rubber aren't necessarily bad.
If you look at their websites or google, most have diagrams showing off their construction.
Gates is also an approved manufacturer of OEM belts for Mitsubishi, and you'd think their aftermarket belts would meet or exceed the durability standards of the OEM belts.
But really, unless you have very stiff upgraded springs, aggressive cams and a righteous rev-limit, the only thing you'll gain over the OEM is that it won't break down as quickly from heat cycling and age.
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SleepinGVR4
Well-known member
JNZ has a good deal on a timing belt kit.
Please don't buy that kit. I bought that same kit. Let me put it in a nut-shell. 1st day, o-ring broke,fixed it. 1 week later, water pump bolt backed out,fixed it.1 1/2 months later the water pump bearing went. Belts looked ok so I reinstalled.
2 months later, Timing belt snapped. bought a NAPA water pump and gates timing belt kit. ok so far, it's been about a year.
2 months later, Timing belt snapped. bought a NAPA water pump and gates timing belt kit. ok so far, it's been about a year.
ggsxkid
Well-known member
Quote:
i looked at parts dinasaur for their timing belt kit. they have it priced at $199. the only difference is that parts dinasaur's kit came with the hydraulic tensioner and the ebay one did not. the price difference is suggestive of the actual price for the hydraulic tensioner ($85 at parts dinasaur). so putting aside the brand names for the belts, their prices are very comparable to each other. satan's price however is $80 for the t-belt only and $125 to $150 for the water pump.
bottom line, i'll probably go with after market from "reputable" parts store. NAPA has been very good to me lately with parts that i have used.
have you ever used a napa belt.... i have... they sell the goodyear gator backs, i had it on for 5 months and probly 5000 miles i had driven on it and it skipped a tooth. ive heard alot worse stories about the g backs and them failing even earlier then mine did. dont use them. i would also have to say that i would go with everything that dialcaliper said. especially the part where he said he would go with a gates belt, forgot to mention gates makes most of the belts for all of the top fuel dragsters.
i looked at parts dinasaur for their timing belt kit. they have it priced at $199. the only difference is that parts dinasaur's kit came with the hydraulic tensioner and the ebay one did not. the price difference is suggestive of the actual price for the hydraulic tensioner ($85 at parts dinasaur). so putting aside the brand names for the belts, their prices are very comparable to each other. satan's price however is $80 for the t-belt only and $125 to $150 for the water pump.
bottom line, i'll probably go with after market from "reputable" parts store. NAPA has been very good to me lately with parts that i have used.
have you ever used a napa belt.... i have... they sell the goodyear gator backs, i had it on for 5 months and probly 5000 miles i had driven on it and it skipped a tooth. ive heard alot worse stories about the g backs and them failing even earlier then mine did. dont use them. i would also have to say that i would go with everything that dialcaliper said. especially the part where he said he would go with a gates belt, forgot to mention gates makes most of the belts for all of the top fuel dragsters.
