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New Owner of 1837/2000

Brett Adams' Galant VR-4

KiNgMaRtY

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
807
Location
Corona, CA
Your car is looking great! Loving all the new goodies you got. After some more seat time, have you noticed any added lag down low with the Magnus V3? I'm sure you will love the new turbo setup! I was hunting for a 3052 for a long time as they seem to be such an awesome all around turbo. When I found the DSM3076, I thought close enough!
 

GSTwithPSI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,442
Location
SoCal
Quoting KiNgMaRtY:
Your car is looking great! Loving all the new goodies you got. After some more seat time, have you noticed any added lag down low with the Magnus V3? I'm sure you will love the new turbo setup! I was hunting for a 3052 for a long time as they seem to be such an awesome all around turbo. When I found the DSM3076, I thought close enough!



Thanks, Martin. I didn't really notice much of a low end loss with the V3. Although, top end did seem to improve a bit. I added cams in conjunction with the Magnus V3, so I'm sure a lot of what was felt was due to the cams. But, I'm sure the manifold does its part.

I've been on the hunt for a 3052 for a while, and finally got a good deal on one. I'll probably looking to swap in the new turbo setup next summer.




A few updates...I finally got my pump back from Aeromotive. After I shipped it in they inspected it and recommended a full rebuild. Apparently, a full rebuild just means they ship you a new pump for $210 bucks, so that's pretty legit I guess.
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Here are a few shots of the install. It fits great right behind the driver side rear bumper panel.
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Initially, I thought the 340 would be enough to feed the A1000. But, after crunching some numbers, and doing some testing, I figured out the single 340 wasn't going to cut it. So, after contemplating what to do about about it for a while, I ended up building a dual in-tank setup. I picked up another Aeromotive 340, and modified a stock hanger to to fit the pair.

I'll start by saying, there's no sexy way to do this. The hole in the tank really limits how the pumps can be configured. The pump strainers are the biggest obstacle, and they basically determine how the pumps can be clocked. After playing around with a few configurations, I got one that worked well. The second pump has to sit slightly below the first with the strainer clocked under. I attempted to make a nice bracket to hold each pump, but found out again space limited what could be done. There's a reason people use hose clamps, because they're basically the only thing that will work...

I've seen people use the Y hose barbs, but I think for the volume of fuel being moved by most dual pump setups, that's not really sufficient. Each pump has its own outlet on the hanger. The outlets are -6AN, and get routed to a Y block with an -8AN outlet which feeds the A1000.
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-EkMXDsCKR3DJnWz7eK8PXYfpu4xbMEiQq5uN6ioD7dDS8LSE0ndGni0OFk9ZTCSAajwD5QTD_mRUTpo7BC6oS0d2FJCwV-EJB1SYDiBlSwDGOI9xtL1vSIA5tAh4aq2Lbac1kzcCfaPx7KJ4qQkfeAepjU9xVQ8e8VVSDASSFj7OSLAEp9ZGjrmwTl5xXGzgDK3ODWtZ3wZpFv7qO1sXO5YqEoY04ZsOcJx1GgiLBJM2tj_c0MTzIEvDNTW_flzsKBI43YETPc9y-FsSBnpEwDTfoDYJ4Afh9hMKepNUYdYWorIVbkpr98UxWCndfFpQ7cJ9qqChNhFZC8C1cicEzTSiMayHaQwLUh1ECO9sAQppTG0K-XU_u6ZXmt9WP5mJlMpo79G4D0_xdAKwx2RGmydmZSU7UAgIAUPn_z8OYHL3aI9VUM8n2rwrCgw1hLc3y7OtxDR2_ym9gCt7CzCPgKz3nju4DMSzhjyQNShGGCxM6gU04y-RqdQVnH_eInCiECpFlMTGWibhm7IIIHVGui7A2DHXJVeeME4lECaUOBlNyvBTSTj7lsLHpQpWjpEDZWMXy-Upbu7vWZTMgjdmjbOBh_GZwTuDjDofZu5dQIaohUXCUxDF6PnCnkFeyQ1Y1StL5G_agAlhDh1FN-avXn1SJ9CRLTP0RBHES7aJVI=w386-h685-no

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I got everything installed and snugged up, then used ECMlink to switch on the system and check for leaks. Everything is sealed up tight, and seems to be working great. I will say, this thing is pretty noisy in comparison to the old single stealth pump (hence the name, I guess). The car sounds like a spaceship on start up. By the time I finished up, it was pretty late, so I'll go out for a test drive tomorrow and start working on re-tuning the car.
 
Last edited:

GSTwithPSI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,442
Location
SoCal
I spent a good amount of seat time in the Galant today dialing in the tune on the new fuel setup. In short, the previous pump setup was seriously lacking. Here are some 3rd gear pull screenshots which show the overall drop in IDCs:

3rd gear pull on 1650s and a single in-tank Aeromotive 340 (50PSI BFP). InjDuty @ 106.5%:
upload_2016-11-21_19-0-1-png.319029





3rd gear pull on 1650s and a single in-tank Aeromotive 340 + an Aeromotive A1000 plumbed in series (50PSI BF). InjDuty @ 97.1%:
upload_2016-12-31_13-44-17-png.321737





3rd gear pull on 1650s and dual in-tank Aeromotive 340s + an Aeromotive A1000 plumbed in series (50PSI BF). InjDuty @ 68%.
upload_2016-12-31_13-44-48-png.321738





In summary, I went from a single Aeromotive 340, to an Aeromotive 340 plus the A1000, and then to dual Aeromotive 340's plus the A1000. Each time, I saw a decrease in IDCs. This isn't rocket science, but it's pretty cool to actually see the real world results!

With the new fuel setup, I was able to drop my global fuel down dramatically. As a result, the car needed a completely new tune. I've got the tune pretty close, but I need to make some more adjustments to my global fuel in order to get my VE table back to scale. My current table has a max VE of only 88, so I need to make the proper adjustments to global fuel to bring that closer to 100. If you're wondering why airflow is reading so low, that's why.

Anyways, another project done, and plenty of knowledge gained in the process.
 

strokin4dr

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
2,768
Location
Savannah, GA
Very nice set up, Brett, but that is a ton of fuel though! I'm running similar airflow numbers on my hta68 at 34ish psi on E85 and only have a Walbro 450 and some fic 1250s.
Sometime seems a bit off, but I don't have any good data at the moment to compare.

Btw, with that pump being hard mounted to the body is probably making it louder than is would be with some type of cushioning in between. Would be an easy fix and help with vibrations too. Something this: CLICK
Good luck!

-Ryan
 

GSTwithPSI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,442
Location
SoCal
Quoting 89Patches:
sh*t that's a lot of pump. How much power you plan on making? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif



Not sure yet, but I'm guessing fuel shouldn't be an issue in the near future. The 3052 will go on at some point, so there's room if I need it.




Quoting strokin4dr:
Very nice set up, Brett, but that is a ton of fuel though! I'm running similar airflow numbers on my hta68 at 34ish psi on E85 and only have a Walbro 450 and some fic 1250s.
Sometime seems a bit off, but I don't have any good data at the moment to compare.

Btw, with that pump being hard mounted to the body is probably making it louder than is would be with some type of cushioning in between. Would be an easy fix and help with vibrations too. Something this: CLICK
Good luck!

-Ryan



Thanks, Ryan. I'm guessing the stock hard lines could be a restriction, but other than that, I don't know what issues there would be. The A1000 is a bit overkill, but I wanted to stick with all Aeromotive stuff. I know a lot of people are using the 044 inline pumps in the same fashion.

You on the V2 version of the 68HTA? I'd like to see a log of your setup if you've got one. I don't know many people running this turbo on E85. What's your base fuel pressure set at? Also, you seeing 34 PSI at redline, or is that peak boost?

The A1000 pump is actually mounted on rubber grommets. It's not super loud, but you definitely know it's there.



In other news, I've been patiently waiting to get my hands on a new Ecliptech Shift-P2. Ecliptech has been working hard to put out the new revised unit after they stopped making the Shift-I, and it really shows with their new unit. Mine finally arrived from Australia, and I'm really happy with it. Long gone are my days staring down at the tach. The nice bright progressive LEDs let you keep your eyes on the track, and not on the tach /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Additionally, you can monitor battery voltage in real time, as well as configure some other inputs. Pretty cool little unit!

Galant VR-4 with the new Ecliptech Shift-P2
 
Last edited:

GSTwithPSI

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Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,442
Location
SoCal
After much time, money and effort, I finally got the car to the point where I felt like I could really push the 68HTA V2. My intention all along was to see what this turbo was really capable of, and I think I'm satisfied with the answer I got. I'll say a few things up front about this turbo:

First, I'll concede this turbo is on the laggy side. In spite of my best efforts, I was unable to get this to spool like it's TD05H predecessors. Now, that's not to say there's not room for improvement, because there certainly is. If spool was your overall goal, you could probably tailor your build to suit this turbo's characteristics a bit more than I have, and get better low end response. However, I've said it before and I'll say it again: This is not a 16G, so don't expect it to perform like one. Also, if you wanted to do the work and machine a 7cm turbine housing for this, I'd bet you'd see a decent improvement on the low end, but you'll certainly pay for that in peak flow. That all being said, the spool isn't horrible considering the amount of air it moves up top.

Second, if you want to get real performance out of this turbo, you need to ditch the internal gate. I started with the stock type actuator that comes with the turbo from FP. It's shimmed to death right out of the box:
wp_003357-jpg.323933

wp_003358-jpg.323934


With the WGA setup above, I was only able to get about 30 PSI peak boost, which would fall off at redline (8k) to around ~25ish PSI. This is obviously bad for power up top, which is where you want gains out of this turbo over the TD05H units. I'm running ECMlink boost control, and maxed my duty cycle out across the board to get the boost numbers mentioned above.

So, I swapped to a modified Holset WG actuator in hopes that it would allow me to hold more boost up top. I even shimmed the sh*t out of it in hopes it would hold better. Although it did help a little, it only increased my ability to hold boost by a few pounds. I saw around 32 PSI peak, and could hold just over 26 PSI to redline after installing the Holset WGA. I'm running a good sized stainless tubular O2 housing, and have 3" cat back exhaust. Again also, my EBC was maxed out at 100% DC.

Bottom line, the internally gated turbine housing just creates too much back pressure to hold boost to redline. At least, that's my experience. If you are going for records on this turbo, it certainly won't be on the internally gated turbine housing...I'm certain of that.
ekd6lpwcywrrp8aormleieb3ervjnozpz72so0dywtivq0n8ktk7yzih1jrhhwc6i8h8fyl9l8pdbf9myc-w1177-h662-no-jpg.323936

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After doing everything in my power to maximize boost, I figured it was time to hit the dyno and see what this 68HTA was capable of.

So, I hit up Dave at EFI Specialties & Performance to schedule some dyno time. All the tuning was done by me, but Dave was kind enough to lend me his dyno and Friday evening so I could put my shitbox on his rollers and play with the tune. It was awesome meeting Dave. He did an outstanding and professional job with the car on the dyno.

On the dyno, I only tweaked the SD table between pulls; boost and timing remained the same for all 3 runs. With each pull I saw a small power increase after tweaking the tune. With more pulls, I probably could have squeezed out a bit more power, but it really wasn't worth the time or effort at that point. Dave and I came to the general consensus that my turbo is damn near tapped out anyways, so there was no use in going for records. Logs seemed to agree, as they showed slightly over 51lbs/min, which would have been higher if the car would hold 30 PSI to redline. A log of the best run is attached below.
Dyno run log

Laggy or not, bang for buck it's hard to beat the 68HTA V2, IMO. I picked this turbo up brand new for around $600 bucks shipped to my door, and it's a good performer for a stock appearing bolt-on unit. Sure, there are better turbos out there, but when you weigh them pound for pound against the 68HTA, I think the pros and cons can balance out depending on the application.

At the end of the day, I just wanted to see where the car was at on the 68HTA (V2) before I swapped to a new turbo setup next spring. I'm happy with the result, and the car runs awesome both on and off the dyno.

That being said, the biggest accomplishment isn't the power it made. I drove it 2 hours to EFI in Virginia, beat the sh*t out of it on the dyno all afternoon making decent power, and then drove back another 2 hours in stop-and-go shitty Virginia traffic. No squeaks, no leaks, no blow-ups, no bullshit. Find me 10 other Galant VR-4s that can make that claim, and I'll start sucking dicks...

Video: Galant VR-4 #1837 of 2000 Dyno Pulls (436 Hp & 417 Tq)




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brett_all-png.323931
 

MellowVR4

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Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
1,662
Location
Milwaukee, Wi
Very VERY nice
 

strokin4dr

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Aug 30, 2005
Messages
2,768
Location
Savannah, GA
Good writeup and results, Brett!
Nice to see those numbers from the little fp turbo that could!

As far as the internal wastegate on the 68hta goes, it just seems to work for me (or did before I broke the car...more or that later /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif)
The turbo spikes to about 36psi and then settles to 30-32psi by redline. I don't have anything special as far as manifold or O2 housing, just an old 1st gen slowboy manifold and a 2g dsm O2 housing both which have been ported a bit.
I'm currently in the process of giving the 2.0 & 68hta combo ready to swap into my mirage so the wife can have something to play with. I'll get some good log data on this turbo once that's finally finished.
 

ApexHunter

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Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
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Marysville, WA
Yeah man, nice work there, thanks for the writeup. Based on that graph, that car looks super fun to drive!
 

KiNgMaRtY

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Apr 8, 2008
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807
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Corona, CA
Great detailed writeups. I like how to provide the data that you logged for reference. Great numbers and it must be a blast to drive!
 

GSTwithPSI

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Jan 1, 2012
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SoCal
I'm doing some more experimenting with the fuel system. I added an OBP 2 liter surge tank between the lift pumps and the A1000. It's a tight squeeze, but with some custom brackets I got it to fit under the rear quarter panel. I finished up the install at 11pm and didn't want to piss my neighbors off...So test drive tomorrow.

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GSTwithPSI

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SoCal
I finished up the additions to the fuel system last night, but didn't get around to installing the IR BCS I picked up. I'm currently running ECMlink boost control on the stock 2 port solenoid, which works great. However, I'm having some issues with boost dropping off near redline. I've upgraded to a modified Holset WGA, but the internal gate is still blowing open up top.

In a last ditch effort, I wanted to try upgrading the BCS to see if that would help any.
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After installing the IR BCS, I went for a test drive to try see how the fuel system and IR BCS performed. Everything worked awesome.

After a few pulls, I had the boost holding steady at 29 PSI at redline. So, it seems the stock BCS is definitely a limiting factor at some point. IR BCS FTW.
upload_2017-3-12_19-36-9-png.328197





The new surge tank seems to be functioning as it should. I wanted to lower the working pressure between the 2 in-tank Aeromotive 340 lift pumps and the A1000, so the lift pumps could move more fuel. I was also having some issues with the lift pumps sucking the sump in the stock tank dry when the car would get under half a tank, so I needed to figure out a solution for that. The surge tank seems to have corrected that issue. Performance wise, IDCs still look awesome, and the car runs great. I will say, you can definitely tell the A1000 is there. The car sounds like a rocket ship on startup. If you're one of the guys who hate the whiny Walbro, this thing would make you cry.

She's a screamer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
New Fuel Setup
 

biglady112

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Sep 30, 2005
Messages
1,255
Location
Commerce City, Co
It is called volumetric efficiency. The higher you spin the motor, the larger and air pump it becomes. Which in turn will decrease your restrction. No amount of money or science you throw at the car will fix you having a baby turbo. The only chance you have is putting an external wastegate in it. Even then it won't fix the fact your miniature turbocharger still won't be able to supply enough airflow to be worth a sh*t at higher rpm.

Seems like a whole lot of unnecessary bullshit for a maxed out 16g car. What do I care though, it is not my time and money wasted on a fat, slow car. I am sure plenty of people will suck your dick for all your shiny parts though.
 
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GSTwithPSI

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Jan 1, 2012
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SoCal
Not everyone wants to build a gutted shitheap just to slap a huge turbo on it, Steve. I don't suffer from little dick big turbo syndrome like you do.
 
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biglady112

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Sep 30, 2005
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Commerce City, Co
Sorry that rice is not my main course for every meal every day. Does running three fuel pumps really sound like a smart and logical solution for a low output street car that spends more time hard parking than being used to its potential? 25lbs of bullshit in a 5lb bag is not the answer unless you are looking for some kind of credit, which there is no doubt you are. Keep it simple. That term will always apply into everything in life .

We don't try and pretend our cars are anything but race cars. That is what we enjoy and what we do with them. Explain how else you go fast in a straight line with small displacement? Pretty sure the bigger the turbo you have, the faster you go. Pretty easy math. Not everyone tries to use NASA engineering to have fun.

Again it is your time and money wasted. I don't give a f***, ever but, I can't stand by and have people think this is the only way you can accomplish something. Most people are broke motherfuckers like myself. Thus why I have to help everyone else to have any fun. I can't build the car(not even a car actually ) I want so that is why I have to take the most basic approach to something and roll with ugly sh*t. You do things your own faggy way and I will keep getting my hands on more cool sh*t. Turbo LS1 Porsche is the next down the pipe. Good on you for staying true to your Mitsubishi roots. After nearly 20 years I is quite boring to me.
 

GSTwithPSI

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Different strokes for different folks.

All I'm trying to accomplish is building my own car my own faggy way. Some people like it, some don't. But, if I did care who liked it, and who didn't, your clown ass would definitely be last on the list of opinions I give a single f*** about.

By all means, you're free to start your own build thread where you educate everyone as to how you'd go about building your own rickety shitheap. As much as I know it pains you, you simply won't find me posting any content along those lines here.
 

turbowop

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Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
11,971
Location
Yakima, WA
Steve is so fuckin salty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

I'd love to have beers with both you faggots someday. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif
 

kumfasa

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Feb 28, 2015
Messages
125
Location
Tauranga, New Zealand
Hey Biglady112, I think you're stuck in the closet.
You see, secretly, you have this build thread marked as one of your favourites and cant wait to click on it when you see that it has a new post.

And its clear that you have read it all (more like devoured it all in a secret dark little room where no-one can see what your wearing) and therefore do give a f***.

Why don't you just come out of the closet and admit that you love GSTwithPSI's faggy ways and in fact want to be faggy with him...I mean as Faggy as him but you just cant do it as well. So you've been relegated to sitting on the side lines throwing stones.



This forum brings people together for the love of the VR-4 whether it has a hotpipe setup or 3 fuel pumps feeding a 16g. Bring something worthwhile and constructive or go back to your voyeurism and pipe down in the cheap seats.
 

Jesus_Negros

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Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
2,338
Location
USA
You should try out an appropriate sized wastegate and see what happens. Either way, nice car and clean work as usual.


To be honest...I'm here for the faggotry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
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