Long Rod Motor

[4thStroke]

Personally, I wouldn't use aluminum on my personal daily driver.

I went the same you route you just described. I built my motor with forged internals and first ran a 16g. I knew more power wasn't far away (although it came much faster than I expected), so I went ahead and spent the money.

It was a good thing I did, because just a few months later I ended up making 557whp. Since then, I drove almost 2 years at over 400whp and am now back on ethanol, daily driving the car at 550whp or so with around 20,000 on the block.

I wouldn't o-ring the head, there are some pretty good head gaskets out there. I'm boosting 33psi on the 30r and have had good luck with standard ARPs and the Mitsu MLS gasket. If I beat on it enough, I won't expect it to last forever, but the combo has done well so far.

 

[littleb]

But how much would more would o-ringing actually be? Because since I could get the machine work done for really cheap or free, would it really be that bad of an idea?

 

[4thStroke]

It kind of goes along the lines of, if you have to ask, you aren't ready for it.

There's more to it than cutting a groove and throwing metal in it.

 

[littleb]

I understand what it does. I just have no idea on the cost of it. I'be also heard some people say that you can't run a steel headgasket and some people say that you can so that's another I'm confused about. But I mean, if its not that expensive for the copper and stuff, why not do it? It'd just be cheap insurance.

 

[boostedinaz]

Putting every option on the motor isn't just cheap insurance. What is the "insurance" of using an o-ring? That it won't blow a head gasket and possibly eat a piston instead?

A lot of the stuff you are asking for simply isn't needed for your goals. If you want to spend a lot of extra money for "insurance" then go for it but at what real cost?

As usual I will say you should search O ring and search aluminum rods to find out some more info. I know for a fact that there was an O ring thread here about a month or so ago.

 

[littleb]

Since when is decent internals and fire ringing a block all the options? I've looked up both on multiple forums and searched up aluminum rods and never found any definite answers hence the reason I asked it on here. I thought maybe someone had some personal experience and could give me a definitive answer. And I've also looked up fire rings on multiple forums and never read anything bad about it. I just have 0 idea how much it costs.

 

[boostedinaz]

Since they aren't need to make the power you want to make. Aluminum rods and o rings simply aren't needed on a street motor. If you can have all the machine work done for free or close to it does it really matter how much it cost? Why not ask this machine shop that is giving you all this work for free what they would charge?

Seems like you have already made up your mind and just want someone here to agree.

As for the down side I already meantioned it. I look at a head gasket as a fuse. If the tune is bad or something happens I would much rather replace a head gasket than a piston. When you o ring you are basically eliminating that fuse. As I said I mentioed all this in a thread about O rings a month or so back.

 

[littleb]

If I would've made up my mind I would be wasting my time asking questions. And of course they aren't "needed" in a street car. But is half of anything that anyone does to street car needed? Absolutely not. But I just personally see no problem with putting a little bit of extra money in an engine and making it have the potential to last longer.. And if I'm wrong just explain it to me.

Now moving on from that, have you ever ran o-rings? The only reason I'm asking about that is because I've seen people go to extremely reputable machine shops and get work done and blow mls headgaskets left and right on ~30psi. I've never personally known anyone to run o-rings on a gasoline car and would just like some input from someone who has actually used them. It seems like most of the older crowd say go for it and most of the younger people think there's no need for it.

 

[cheekychimp]

Aluminum Rods also make for a faster revving engine. I'm not saying that's needed for a street car either but a lot of guys run lightened flywheels in a street car and it's the same thing. There are very few parts that actually 'make' power, let's be honest. Assuming you have an ECU that you can tune with the only things that actually add power are the turbo, fuel system and air intake system. Everything else either 'liberates' power or withstands it to prevent failures.

Edit: Also on the subject of the original post, one day I will build a long rod street motor but it will be a 2.4 litre block sleeved and rebored to take stock EVO III or EVO VIII/IX pistons on 156 mm rods.

 

[littleb]

What would the advantages be of using the 2.4? I don't know the first thing about those.

 

[cheekychimp]

6 mm taller deck height allows you to build a long rod motor using stock pistons instead of custom ones with the wrist pin moved. Of course you could always use custom pistons in the 2.4 block and build a super long rod motor with 162 mm rods.

 

[donniekak]

Quoting littleb:
If I would've made up my mind I would be wasting my time asking questions. And of course they aren't "needed" in a street car. But is half of anything that anyone does to street car needed? Absolutely not. But I just personally see no problem with putting a little bit of extra money in an engine and making it have the potential to last longer.. And if I'm wrong just explain it to me.

Now moving on from that, have you ever ran o-rings? The only reason I'm asking about that is because I've seen people go to extremely reputable machine shops and get work done and blow mls headgaskets left and right on ~30psi. I've never personally known anyone to run o-rings on a gasoline car and would just like some input from someone who has actually used them. It seems like most of the older crowd say go for it and most of the younger people think there's no need for it.



My current build is an e85 20g setup, running about 30 psi. I had my block o-ringed because it was really cheap. In fact, it was easily cheap enough that the $35 composite gasket i run, added to the cost of ringing the block, is still way cheaper than the felpro mls, and seals better. Also, when i get tired of the 20g, i have no worries about tossing a 70-80 lb/min turbo on my setup.

 

[littleb]

Did you use copper or ss wire for your rings?

 

[donniekak]

Stainless. Copper is useless, unless you are running a receiver groove in the head. I've seen lots of people run copper with mls gaskets, and the copper is just smashed into the block.

With the o-rings, and a1 h11 studs, i foresee no sealing issues in the future.

I built my dsm to be beaten on, not abused, but driven really hard. Living where i live, it's not hard at all to put 4-5 good launches, and a few full 3rd gear pulls in my car every time i drive it. But, i wont hesitate to take it for a few hundred mile trip, with the a/c cranked up.

 

[alansupra94]

Interesting. I wish I had O-ring my block when I had it out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

Oh well I might be building up another motor anyways! Seems like O-ring with stock headgasket is a great option!

 

[littleb]

What do you think about running stainless rings with an mls head and grooves cut in the head? I've also heard of people doing that but I don't really see a need to do that if a composite gasket will seal just as good.