Ethanol carnage

[4thStroke]

Long story short, I ended up borrowing a friends set of FIC 2150s so I could crank up my car (1250s were maxed at 557awhp) and race an event over the summer. Event got cancled... go figure.

One night, I ended up ripping on the car, from a dead stop to the top of 3rd, I figure the car was north of 550awhp again, timing was somewhat held back. Shut the car off for a while, and when I got back in, it had a bad misfire when I ripped on it. This was the result when the dust settled.






Cylinder 4 went way lean, detonated, and torched a hole in the head, took out the head gasket (obviously), and hurt the block a little.

The injectors were sent in to FIC for inspection and cleaning. Two of the plugs had a horrible spray pattern and were not flowing like they should have been. There was a bunch of the infamous black good on the tip of all the injectors. The plugs were fine when they were installed and this was just a tank or two after I dropped them in.

ETS welded up the head and TIG'd the block. It should be driving within a couple weeks.

Keep an eye on those injectors if you are using ethanol. This was not a cheap fix and I got very lucky the indents in the block were as far out as they were, the block was almost trashed.

On a brighter note, cylinder 4 has never been so clean since that piston was dropped in over a couple years ago /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JNR]

Sorry to hear of the damage, that sucks...Not sure why people use that junk (ethanol), as you're just asking for trouble. Just spend the extra $$ on some high octane gas and/or methanol/water injection, or just dump fuel into the cylinders to keep detonation at bay.

 

[4thStroke]

You are playing with fire any time you decide to crank a car up with a high octane fuel. That threshold for error gets significantly smaller. To make the same gains with methanol injection is more dangerous, IMO. There are way too many ways for a meth system to fail. Te biggest problem is that you never know the quality of the fuel or where it came from. Two stations around here within a 30 mile radius have different colored fuels... just kinda makes you wonder what kind of quality control is actually being enforced.

I've ran a lot of ethanol through the car, I just happened to get a bad batch. I won't be using it again in the near future, though.

 

[JNR]

true about the methanol injection, although i'd personally just run (distilled) water injection and have some safeguards for it not to operate, ever, below a certain psi or rpm, etc.

You're lucky you git by with that corn fuel so long, IMO. Stuff sucks all around, for moisture, gunk buildup at the injectors and elsewhere, is not compatible with most materials used in our cars and needs special storage techniques at the stations, mainly for moisture (you know most gas stations don't follow this)...it has 2/3 the energy of gasoline (100% ethanol) and about the only good thing is its octane equivalent. You have to be careful mixing any additives to it, also. You cannot get 100% ethanol at the pump because it will not start in cold weather (why they add at least 15% gasoline)....sorry, but after reasing about that stuff, it's just crap and asking for trouble....Perhaps if the car was designed for it, like the flex fuels, it wouldn't be *as* bad, but on these 20+ year old cars, bad idea.

 

[4thStroke]

I ran it with stock fuel lines, stock replacement fuel filter, fuel rain, and with 2 walbro pumps and never had an issue with any of it. I know many cars that successfully daily drive on it and have not had an issue, this truly was a fluke incident for the injector to fail so badly.

I have access to E98 and E100. It will colt start, it just takes some time and can be a pain in the ass. Some cars fire right up, others are not so lucky.

All of this comes with the territory of daily driving a car on race gas. I'm still a believer, I just don't have the time or money to spend if something goes bad... as it did. It is always a gamble.

 

[WaRrIoRs16]

This worries me. I just recently got some 2150s that are going to be used with e85. I have been driving on e85 with 1050s for a while with zero e85 related issues besides it getting harder to start from the cold weather.

Was the problem a freak accident? Or should I be concerned about using these injectors and e85?

 

[raptorWagon]

It's not a problem with the Injectors, it's a problem with the fuel.

 

[JNR]

that black goop (resulting from the ethanol) probably allowed it to go lean, I bet...another thing with ethanol is it's hygroscopic (collects moisture) and when it sits in the tank, the ethanol and water separate from the gasoline and it's possible you could be squirting (some) water instead of fuel...If you knew it was good stuff from the station and burned it right away, shouldn't be an issue, especially in a car's tank-vent setup...but, a lot these stations are not familiar with the specific things they need to do when using ethanol and/or don't care.

I just encourage you guys to do some non-biased research on the ethanol and esp. E85 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Not just the fuel itself, but what needs to be done for storage, pumps and so on and esp. the list of incompatible materials (incl. steel, lead (tank welds), brass and alum., plus rubber and many plastics) that many older cars use...I worked on fuel systems' (gasoline and diesel) & station design recently and really looked into this stuff and it's a no-go for me, ever, as there are just too many things that can go wrong. Sort of like drinking ripple instead of top quality whiskey, lol. May be alright at first, or awhile, but it will catch up to you.

It's totally up to you and not trying to make this an ethanol debate, but just warning you on the realities of the stuff...

 

[talontyme]

I live in VA and the weather here is crazy I day its 80 and humid the next 40 and windy,with that said There are to friends of mine here that run the 2150's both cars make over 600awhp and neither have problems.

 

[talontyme]

I also have the 2150's but my car is still under construction there is also three other guys running over 1250cc's injectors and no problems BTW we run e85.

 

[4thStroke]

Like Tim said, it is a fuel problem, not an injector problem. The injectors were cleaned and are perfectly functional now.

 

[NateCrisman]

I feel for ya man, that head/block looks just like what I went through with my 1g AWD Auto 14b car this year. (due to a plugged fuel jet within a direct port nitrous kit).

 

[4thStroke]

Were you able to salvage any of it, or was it more worth it to you to just drop another stock block back in? My head needed new guides as well, so the bill was steep. The only reason I wanted to keep this head was because of the port job on it.

 

[NateCrisman]

I did it three times this season, each time I kept slapping stock heads back on the same bottom end, until the third time it took a chunk of the block's deck surface and I knew it wouldn't seal. Im planning to have the block decked and reuse everything again. Keith at TTR says he can TIG up the heads and make them useable again, will see. Used cyl heads are cheap enough that I haven't bothered to try and have one fixed yet. Im running a 14b+auto combo that only traps 116mph, so headwork/valvetrain can be all stock since RPM is kept really low (I shift it at like 5900) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[JCorbo25]

I haven't had any issues running a DD on E85 (Evolution 8/9) and never found any gunk on my injectors after 60k. I do know some friends that pull them every 6-10k to check and clean.

 

[thecman02]

I've never had any issues either. I think the stuff is amazing. Just like pure gasoline, ethanol can have bad batches. I forgot what causes the deposits, but if you suspect a bad water content you can fill the e85 in a separate container and take the specific gravity of it before you pour it in.

 

[JNR]

wonder if a water separator would help or is possible?

 

[Alex]

Would a ethanol tester kit benefited from this happening period?? I live in Alaska so we don't have the luxury of running E85 or ethanol period /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif hopefully you get her back on the road man.

Alex