Built Motor: when is this really needed?

[desant78]

Hello fellow gvr4.org members

At work, during this incredibly slow week, I was wondering, how much HP can a motor handle safely? And when is it truly the time to build a motor with forged everything?

A quick google search has dsmtuners claiming upwards 450hp, but does anyone here achieve that goal as a daily driver?


My real question is, I am willing to do what it takes to build a safe reliable engine, that I want to use and push, often. What power range does having a built motor become a must for that goal? I am still trying to establish goals, and if I need to rebuild a motor will play into the decision.

thanks in advance!

 

[BadVr4]

if you are looking to make over 420-430whp you should look into a built motor. with a good tune a 4g63 has been known to handle well over 500whp, but the question is how long will it last? 500hp on a built motor with a good tune should last a long time

 

[yeti]

You answered your on question 450-600 and shits breaking left and right..(to my knowledge)

id say overshoot your hp goals just to be safe, just because a motor is built to run 600hp does not mean it cant run 400 very safely and dd.. (this is my plan at least)

and forged everything is not needed unless your looking to beat records or some sh*t..

budget build is :evo 8 pistons(forged),forged rods,ARP hardware, MLS HG(once again to my knowledge)

 

[DR1665]

When you say you want to push it often, where do you want to do this? If mostly on the street, I'd say build for near 400HP, but dial it back to 350 or so and get really comfy with tuning and driving. A healthy stock bottom end with some mild headwork, intake/exhaust, and an E316G should be more than enough fun to get you in trouble around town without losing too much low end like you would with a bigger turbo.

More fun to drive a lower powered car to it's full potential than a higher powered car at something less. Drive the sh*t out of a 350HP lump and then decide if you want to build a bottom end to handle 500+, ya know?

 

[citymunky]

Quoting yeti:


budget build is :evo 8 pistons(forged),



EVO 8 pistons are not forged. EVO 9 are. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

My plan is stock 1g rods, EVO 9 pistons.

 

[yeti]

I thought they were both forged?

 

[desant78]

thanks for all the input, still kinda stuck on what to do.

I wanted to go the E16g route, and have a monster on the street that will get me in all sorts of trouble. I came across a deal though, a DNP tubular exhaust manifold, shiny intercooler (larger then evo 8 but that was at a glance), and a FP3065 BB turbo for a whopping 500.

I am new to tuning, and wanted the E16g as an excerise before I stepped up to a bigger turbo, but with this deal I am not sure what to do. I have yet to do any research into the FP3065 just read some reviews like "spools like a 16g" and "the best street turbo"

DISCLAIMER: I know there is no such thing as "the best street turbo" just making refernce that some reviews claim it is a good turbo for street use, like what I want.

so if that is true, I do not want to have an E16g build, only to have to switch to the FP3065. I am thinking of running the FP3065 to 18-20psi, getting a tune down, then just cranking boost slowly, but surely.

I am stuck because if I go that route, how hard can I push the turbo before I need a beefer engine? If I get a tune for 18-20 psi on the FP3065, do I need a built motor to procede any further? Or am I in left field and this turbo is just way to big? I want a autocross/track car size turbo, that is great for playing on the street. My quarter mile I really don't care about.

for me the 16g is straight forward, everything just bolts up and I am good to go. The FP3065 I noticed takes a little more time, so if I take the time to mount the turbo should I also rebuild the engine at the same time? current compression on one motor is 165-160-145-160 and a second motor I have yet to test. So my question is assuming a 6 bolt that is in great shape. I don't want a built motor if that is what I need to surpass the 700 hp mark, but it seems I might be on the line here with my goals and safe operation of my motor. 350awhp is definately fast enough for now. and a fast spool to that point would be great, but I would not complain about having the capability to go a little further (HP wise) for the days i go to the track.

I know I have a lot of questions, so this is part of my research. If i know the point of needing a built motor for an engine that will get a healthy constant beating and many spirited drives through farms, it will help me in choosing a turbo.

I'm open to all feedback, trying to learn here so please bring on the education /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[desant78]

Quoting citymunky:
Quoting yeti:


budget build is :evo 8 pistons(forged),



EVO 8 pistons are not forged. EVO 9 are. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

My plan is stock 1g rods, EVO 9 pistons.




so above 400hp, what starts to fail and MUST be replaced? pistons, rods, crank? thanks!

 

[yeti]

First is pistons then rods i think ....Your crank is golden and wont need replacing unless something happens to it.

id buy good hardware too though

 

[LIV4PSI]

Quoting desant78:
Quoting citymunky:
Quoting yeti:


budget build is :evo 8 pistons(forged),



EVO 8 pistons are not forged. EVO 9 are. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

My plan is stock 1g rods, EVO 9 pistons.




so above 400hp, what starts to fail and MUST be replaced? pistons, rods, crank? thanks!



Pistons go first. It is because detonation is inevitable at those power levels, and all it takes is one good knock to break a piston. At 400hp, the type of fuel is very important. A car that is on E85 is going to be much more reliable than one that is on 91oct at high hp levels. 6 bolt engines are very stout with just ARP head studs and an upgraded head gasket.

I didn't know EVO 9 pistons are forged, that's awesome.

 

[4thStroke]

There is a local guy who runs a 1g rod/2g piston motor that makes over 400awhp and has done so reliably. There is no way a stock 16g is going to break a stock motor unless something else causes failure. I even know of a 16g car that made 450awhp and over 500ft/lbs of torque on a 1g/2g motor. It made this power a couple years back and the motor is still running strong.

The 3065 does NOT spool like a 16g. It's kind of a bastardized turbo (30R turbine, 35R compressor) and only outperforms the HTA3076R from 7 to 8k RPM or so, and at that point, its not much. With my DSM76 (bolt on HTA3076R), I see 26psi at 4,000RPM with a built 2 liter on pump gas. The larger framed turbos need more than 20psi to really feel like they are doing what you want them to.

I wouldn't be afraid to run a stock motor in the 400+whp range, I don't feel that I'm even pushing my built motor at 440awhp, torque is low at 335.

Another thing to consider is that a built motor will not last near as long as a stock motor, so you might want to take that into consideration when looking at the long haul.