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Top mounted intercooler, very short route and hood scooped! *UPDATE*

WaRrIoRs16

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Mar 23, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Ferndale, WA
OP, to save you some of a headache, if you are going to post a log you'll have to do it elsewhere and provide a link to it because file uploads aren't available on this forum. You could perhaps setup the window in ECMlink to show the entire run/pull and post up a screen shot of it though. I also see 21psi at 3300rpms to redline on an E16G, as expected.
 

rdomeck

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Jun 1, 2011
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620
Location
Indianapolis, In.
Ill post up a log on ecmlink and post a link to that here. As I have said this is my first turbo car that I have owned myself so I have not driven one daily before....It does seem like good on the throttle response, but if you guys think it could be better then I'm all for it.

I was noticing today in second gear that my boost gauge seemed more like a throttle position indicator. As soon as I push on the throttle the needle on the boost gauge moves with it. No delay at all...None! I'm very used to 930 Porsche's that come on around 4500-5000 and are done at 6500! Fun when there on boost but dogs any other time!

I am fighting some odd knock issues also, at a light throttle about 2500RPM its knocking like crazy. I have been backing timing off to remedy this. I will take a log on the way to work tomorrow. I have looked back at the last couple and I can't find any were I'm on it full throttle. I guess I'm not driving it hard enough? I'll get a good one tomorrow!

They only other thing that I could think of is that I'm running a chambered Flowmaster muffler (Super 44 I think!). I'm going to try a different one tomorrow and see if that would make a difference. The Flowmaster is too loud anyway...It's gotta go!

Thanks for all the input so far!
 

fuel

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Feb 23, 2009
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Toronto, ON, Canada
Quoting NateCrisman:
Quoting GSX_TC:
oh noez, he called it a DSM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif



For all intent and purpose in regard to everything but the unibody and interior, it IS a DSM. The engine, drivetrain, electronics, and all engine bay stuff came off the same assembly line as the talon/laser/eclipse.



So are you saying the USDM Galant VR-4 engines were assembled in the US or that the DSM T/E/L engines are assembled in Japan?
 

fuel

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Feb 23, 2009
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2,165
Location
Toronto, ON, Canada
with my near-factory VR-4 Evo with 16G/JDM larger intercooler/piping I would see full boost (14-15psi) in higher gears in the early 3000's too. When I swapped to a 20G/back cut turbo the lag increased perhaps 200-300rpms - but still seeing full boost well before 4000rpms. This is with the factory air box/air filter and factory exhaust from the downpipe back - only other mod is an EvoIII exhaust manifold and high flow down pipe. I'm thinking there's a leak somewhere or a massive restriction somewhere - or even the engine just isn't running right (you do mention there is a bit of knock). Is that turbo intake pipe restricted in any way? To me it looks like it's 2.5" or so the whole way to the filter. Even the factory rubber pipe starts out at 3+" and tapers down to the 2" opening.
 

rdomeck

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Jun 1, 2011
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Indianapolis, In.
Intake pipe is 3" mandrel from the filter to the turbo......
 

rdomeck

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Jun 1, 2011
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Indianapolis, In.
I'm a bit of an idiot sometimes. I did go out for test drive this morning to try out a different muffler. With a small worry about how fast I was going when I past a police man I decided to pull back into my shop quickly and wait for a while before drawing more attention to myself! I started making a mount for my Cibie Super Oscars and decided I would go ahead and pull this thing apart to paint it. I remembered tonight that I needed to get a log for you guys to look at!

I did find (and hear) that my temp sensor in my inlet tank of the intercooler had came out! This is a 3/8 pipe thread, so about a 5/8 hole. Fixed the problem and drove it home and had planned on getting a log this morning......Didn't think it was worth running into my friendly police man that was still circling the building looking for me!

Hopefully I can get this thing painted in the next week or two and post up a log!

Thanks for all the input and help!
 

rdomeck

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Jun 1, 2011
Messages
620
Location
Indianapolis, In.
Update.....I like the idea of this, but I'll admit, it just isn't working. Can't get enough flow under the intercooler to keep it cool. Even tried a puller fan on the underside, but just get's too hot on long trips. I'm seeing 150 degree's on the interstate on a long trip on a 100 degree day....Way to hot. I have a EVO 8 core mounted up front and will figure out the piping in this week. Still going to keep the hood scoop and direct it to the air filter.

I don't need any I told you so crap either. I had my concern's about this set up, but felt like giving it a good shoot before going the cookie cutter route.

Thanks for all the helpful input on this last year!
 

cheekychimp

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Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
Well nothing is achieved if you don't try and please don't let the thread die. I have a hood from one of John Teeter's old rally car molds. It too has a hood scoop right where yours is and I have put my air filter over there in an old school EVO ARC airbox. I need to make something to seal it better so air goes straight into the filter but I'd like to see if you find it beneficial to do it. The only thing about it I have not yet decided upon is whether it should be a 'ram air' system or not. I'm thinking NOT because when it is raining I guess that will direct water straight onto my filter. I think I need to build a box that extends behind the filter with a drip tray in the bottom. That way water can go into the vent and drop behind the filter (heavier than air) but cooler air from outside the engine bay should still fill the sealed area around the filter.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

Barnes

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Feb 9, 2003
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Location
Richland, WA
Quoting rdomeck:
Update.....I like the idea of this, but I'll admit, it just isn't working. Can't get enough flow under the intercooler to keep it cool. Even tried a puller fan on the underside, but just get's too hot on long trips. I'm seeing 150 degree's on the interstate on a long trip on a 100 degree day....Way to hot. I have a EVO 8 core mounted up front and will figure out the piping in this week. Still going to keep the hood scoop and direct it to the air filter.

I don't need any I told you so crap either. I had my concern's about this set up, but felt like giving it a good shoot before going the cookie cutter route.

Thanks for all the helpful input on this last year!



Have you already removed it? Do you have datalogs of temperature/RPM/Boost etc? I figured it might be relevent for the discussion about lag in this thread: Air-Water thread
 

mitsuturbo

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Jun 2, 2008
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3,551
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Near Seattle, Washington
It's nice that someone else did this and i can learn from their mistake. Have i mentioned lately, how much i love this particular forum? It's great that guys are willing to try things that aren't always widely accepted, even if they do turn out to be somewhat of a failure.
 

curtis

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May 4, 2003
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Clarksville TN
Well even though it didn't work out for hot weather still think its a sexy looking hood. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif
 

JNR

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Apr 23, 2004
Messages
9,814
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ca
I had tossed around this idea for my toyota turbo 4x4 truck, since it has no intercooler and there is practically no room to put a conventional intercooler and may go ahead and try something like this, although my concern was that it would have to be installed right over the engine (although there is a fair amount of space to the bottom of the hood) and of course the subsequent radiant heat constantly hitting it. I suppose a 'shield' could be installed, although it seems to be that would block some airflow, but guess if it's done in such way as to draw (or push) air off to the sides and angling said shield down.

The other issue is getting air flow thru the intercooler with it being in a horizontal (although mine would be slightly angled up) position, even with a hood scoop directing air over it. Being that heat rises, what would be cool to consider is if you had the airflow go over the hood (not a scoop) in a way that would promote the heat to be 'pulled' out rather than trying to 'push' it down over it, where it doesn't really have anywhere to go (in comparison). Couple that with a puller fan/shroud and diverting it down and away from the engine and maybe somehow out the side sort of (this is hard to explain in words). The problem of course is when it's sitting still, or in heavy traffic and so on and more importantly when it rains and such (as in not having a full opening).

In an opposite manner, on my 5.9 ZJ it came from the factory with louvered vents because those models had an electric fan (vs. 5.2 and 4.0 had mechanical) and even with the 'baffles', it worked suprisingly well to help draw heat out; would like to do something like that on my (nissan) truck, but with regard to the IC on the (toyota) truck, perhaps louvers somewhere would help after diverting the air thru the IC and out over back thru the louvers.
 

James

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Apr 7, 2012
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Port richey Florida
There's a guy in DSMpurity with a 1g, hood scoop and top mount... He keeps his temps down. I don't see why a galant can't do the same.
 

BpuVR4

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Jul 11, 2005
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813
Location
Chicago
great effort, and beautiful set up. hopefully you'll discover a way to make it work.
 

rdomeck

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Jun 1, 2011
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620
Location
Indianapolis, In.
Quoting James:
There's a guy in DSMpurity with a 1g, hood scoop and top mount... He keeps his temps down. I don't see why a galant can't do the same.



I will email him and seek some advice. I just don't see this working. I thought about mounting a more effective core in place of this one, but there comes a time when you have to say "Well that was a bad idea". I think I'm at that point, but I'll do a little more research. His car is pictured on the first or second page of this thread!
 

James

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Apr 7, 2012
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Port richey Florida
Oh good I didn't notice someone had ready brought it up.
 

GSX_TC

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Apr 7, 2011
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Houston, Texas
Quoting James:
There's a guy in DSMpurity with a 1g, hood scoop and top mount... He keeps his temps down. I don't see why a galant can't do the same.



If your talking about the guy with the White 1G DSM with a black scoop, I posted pics of his car on the very first page of this thread.
 

rdomeck

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Jun 1, 2011
Messages
620
Location
Indianapolis, In.
One thing that I am starting to question is if I had a big enough tube from the turbo to the intercooler and if that was the right place to pull the signal for the wastegate? I believe I was running a 1 1/2" tube from the turbo about 7 inches and then stepping up to a 1 3/4" into the intercooler. That total distance from the turbo outlet to the intercooler core tank is about 9". I am running 2 1/2" out of the core into the intake and that distance is about 2-3". I have messaged the guy with the OTHER top mounted intercooler to seek some advice. I would love to make this work, but don't have 4 years to develop it!
 

TomN

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Nov 21, 2011
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207
Location
North Port, Fl
Is the intake pipe to the turbo going from the turbo under the frame and up into the front corner of the car?
You really don't want to be sucking hot air from under the hood if I am understanding your pictures correctly.
 

rdomeck

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Jun 1, 2011
Messages
620
Location
Indianapolis, In.
^ It is. But it's no different than most others out there and I don't feel like that's my huge heat issue....Maybe some, but not the 150 degree's that I am seeing!
 
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