GalantVR4.org The Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Forum
Galant VR-4 Forums » Galant VR-4 » Technical Discussions » Re: Valve cover vent + PCV question
Previous thread Next thread

Re: Valve cover vent + PCV question


PastaRocket
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404016 posted 11/08/06 01:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No Wakefield is a different owner, they own that one and Saugus. I'm in Woburn. But there are no Galant VR-4 owners allowed here at the same time as me, things might start randomly breaking in the store for no reason.


Edited by 1778 (11/08/06 01:16 PM)

| | | IP: (65.82.138.66) | Report this post to a Moderator

CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404020 posted 11/08/06 01:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'll be there in 20 minutes...if I can find it.



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

Posts: 8938 | From: West Simsbury, CT | Member Since: 08/30/04 | IP: (198.105.0.4) | Report this post to a Moderator

PastaRocket
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404053 posted 11/08/06 02:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hey I guess this is the thread to ask this, we were talking about this at work the other day. Can you run a PCV valve inline??


Edited by 1778 (11/08/06 02:17 PM)

| | | IP: (65.82.138.66) | Report this post to a Moderator

Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404060 posted 11/08/06 02:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Inline with what? The vent hose to the intake?

Is so then no, that needs to be open. The OEM PCV is closed under boost when crank case pressure is highest, so all air/blow by needs to escape through the vent tube. If you put a PCV inline it would stop anything from exiting which you can see why wouldn't be good. If you meant the other way so that it was only forced open under crankcase pressure and was normally pulled shut by the vacuum in the crankcase from the Intake manifold I would lean towards no. Simply because they are not meant to work that way and if it clogged or something internally malfunctioned it could block the crankcases ability to vent, which could lead to blowing out dipstiks, messy engine bays or maybe worse.



My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000


Edited by Polish (11/08/06 02:29 PM)

Posts: 8936 | From: NE, IN | Member Since: 01/10/05 | IP: (69.245.199.104) | Report this post to a Moderator

oneup
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404098 posted 11/08/06 03:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

When the PCV opens it will pull air out of the Valve cover. When you leave the vent tube open it can suck air through that and into the intake manifold, this will be unmetered air.




If you mean by where pcv used to hook up to then I have that plugged. so I don't see how in the hell so called unmetered air can getting into conbustion chamber. I could see getting into crankcase but not in the cylinder where unmetered air is not wanted.

pcv valve is off of valve cover which is has nothing to do with intake mani. someone care to explain to me? am I missing something?


Edited by oneup (11/08/06 03:30 PM)

| | | IP: (24.33.79.242) | Report this post to a Moderator

946
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404354 posted 11/08/06 09:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:



If you mean by where pcv used to hook up to then I have that plugged. so I don't see how in the hell so called unmetered air can getting into conbustion chamber. I could see getting into crankcase but not in the cylinder where unmetered air is not wanted.

pcv valve is off of valve cover which is has nothing to do with intake mani. someone care to explain to me? am I missing something?




OP (Paul) still has his PCV plumbed into the intake manifold. If you have your manifold plugged in that spot, there is no worry about unmetered air. Only sludge

Stock routing is: Valve cover>PCV valve>intake manifold

| | | IP: (24.21.213.84) | Report this post to a Moderator

oneup
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404382 posted 11/08/06 10:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
ok.. that's what I thought. but he made sounds like unmetered air was reason he doesn't want to get a catch can. which made no sense.

| | | IP: (24.33.79.242) | Report this post to a Moderator

homeless
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404433 posted 11/09/06 05:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Best way to go is will always be to run a one breather and one way check valve off the Filter line to the valve cover. Then remove the pcv valve and run a line to an electric Vacuum Pump . Or you can use a mechanical unit like this ford one.

The second best way would be to run a one way valve and breather on the filter line and leave the pcv in the valve cover and run a line to something like this.

In this system you weld a fitting into the exhaust and as the gasses pass by it pulls vapors from the crankcase.


V8 guys have been using both setups for years and they do work.


Edited by homeless (11/09/06 05:59 AM)

| | | IP: (74.133.84.180) | Report this post to a Moderator

Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404451 posted 11/09/06 07:20 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Quote:

When the PCV opens it will pull air out of the Valve cover. When you leave the vent tube open it can suck air through that and into the intake manifold, this will be unmetered air.




If you mean by where pcv used to hook up to then I have that plugged. so I don't see how in the hell so called unmetered air can getting into conbustion chamber. I could see getting into crankcase but not in the cylinder where unmetered air is not wanted.

pcv valve is off of valve cover which is has nothing to do with intake mani. someone care to explain to me? am I missing something?




Ok, so yours is plugged - good for you. I was talking about an OEM like setup.

PCV valve has a lot to do with the intake manifold considering it is hooked DIRECTLY to it, where else do you think the vacuum would come from?

Re-read my post again, it's really quite simple.

------------

As for the unmetered air, I will try again. If you leave the vent tube on the side of the valve cover open, whether with a filter clamped on it or have it running to a catch can or whatever unmetered air will get into the engine IF the PCV is still functional. This because under Vacuum the pcv is open and the engines vacuum PULLS air out of the crank case. Now if the breather port on the side is open to atmophere in one way or another air can be pulled into it, into the valve cover and right into the manifold. It couldn't be any simpler. Now is it a ton of air, no I highly doubt it. Was it a reason I said I didn't want a catch can? No, I already have a catch can installed.

Here are a few average DSM setups to help some of you understand since words are not enough sometimes.

This is a race setup, you will see most 1/4 only guys have this. I do not suggest it for street for a few reasons. I used to think it was the end all setup and nothing else was better but with some reading and having it on my car for over 1000 miles it's not that great for street use. Your engine bay will become and oily mess directly around the filter on the catch can, because of crank case pressure blowing out the filter at high rpm's. This air has tiny oil particles with it. Also your crank case will never get the condensation pulled out of it. So the oil will get watery in a sense. Also any smoke or blow by will just mix in with the oil as opposed to be possibly pulled out. Again, if you make huge power and need maximum crank case venting - sure this setup is ok. If you drive on the street alot and don't live at the track I don't see hy you need this setup. It has ZERO benefits other than clean IC pipes and max crank case venting. Clean IC pipes can be achived with sealed catch cans and filter. You only need tons of crank case venting if you make huge power or spend all your time at WOT like a Rally car for 20 minutes straight.

Stock setup, only flaw being dirty IC pipes. A filter will cure that if you keep it changed.

Your average street DSM setup. I do not like this setup. I've already mentioned why a few times.

Proper setup, in my opinion for a street DSM/4G63. After me personally beating the research horse to death and having the "race" setup on my car to which I don't like or need.

There are other options also these are just the most common setups you see in the DSM/GVR4 world.

Maybe/Hopefully this will clear it up for some of you.



My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000

Posts: 8936 | From: NE, IN | Member Since: 01/10/05 | IP: (69.245.199.104) | Report this post to a Moderator

CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428295 posted 01/10/07 11:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Back from the dead.

So this is my other little project for the week. I'm going to re-install my PCV valve and run the hose to my catchcan. I'm going to seal the other catchcan port (which currently has a hose attached to it from the valve cover breather) and route a hose from the top of the cc to my intake minifold.

For the valve cover breather, I'm going to install an inline fuel filter, and then figure out a way to attach that hose to my intake, pre-turbo. My intake pipe is currently un-tapped. Can I just run that hose underneath the car and forget about it?

I guess I'm still not understanding the issues here. I get the PCV vac/boost phenomenon, but not the valve cover breather and how it works. Can it just be vented to atmosphere?



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

Posts: 8938 | From: West Simsbury, CT | Member Since: 08/30/04 | IP: (198.105.0.129) | Report this post to a Moderator

Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428315 posted 01/10/07 11:57 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes, it can. However when the PCV gets pulled open bay vacuum it will pull air through that breather line. So a small amount of unmetered air will enter the intake. Not nearly enough to make a large difference imho, still not "correct" though. Thats how I have been running mine because I have yet to tap my intake pipe. I just have a hose with a filter on the end coming off the breather line. Then a new oem pcv routed right to the intake manifold.




My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000


Edited by Polish (01/10/07 11:59 AM)

Posts: 8936 | From: NE, IN | Member Since: 01/10/05 | IP: (69.245.199.104) | Report this post to a Moderator

jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
Too Clean
1881/2000
50/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428687 posted 01/11/07 08:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Back from the dead.

So this is my other little project for the week. I'm going to re-install my PCV valve and run the hose to my catchcan. I'm going to seal the other catchcan port (which currently has a hose attached to it from the valve cover breather) and route a hose from the top of the cc to my intake minifold.




Why are you going to run a PCV with it routed to a catch can?



-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

Posts: 7872 | From: KC, Missouri | Member Since: 08/08/04 | IP: (159.140.254.10) | Report this post to a Moderator

CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428707 posted 01/11/07 08:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So the crap coming through it is contained and not re-introduced to the intake manifold.



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

Posts: 8938 | From: West Simsbury, CT | Member Since: 08/30/04 | IP: (198.105.0.129) | Report this post to a Moderator

jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
Too Clean
1881/2000
50/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428726 posted 01/11/07 09:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So you're going to run a PCV valve, and then run a line from that into the catch can? And block off the port on the intake manifold? Everything else is stock?

If that's the case, there isn't going to be any vacuum anyways, and nothing is going to be sucked back into your PCV valve. IMO, if you're running it that way you might as well run no PCV valve and at least get the benefit of higher flow through to the catchcan.



-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

Posts: 7872 | From: KC, Missouri | Member Since: 08/08/04 | IP: (159.140.254.10) | Report this post to a Moderator

Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428741 posted 01/11/07 09:31 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No he is running a catch can between the line from the PCV to the Intake manifold. So less crap will make it's way into the intake manifold under vacuum.



My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000

Posts: 8936 | From: NE, IN | Member Since: 01/10/05 | IP: (69.245.199.104) | Report this post to a Moderator

CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428744 posted 01/11/07 09:34 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Exactly, though I'm also considering the T and one-way inline valve approach mentioned above.



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

Posts: 8938 | From: West Simsbury, CT | Member Since: 08/30/04 | IP: (198.105.0.129) | Report this post to a Moderator

jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
Too Clean
1881/2000
50/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428749 posted 01/11/07 09:43 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ahh, gotcha.



-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

Posts: 7872 | From: KC, Missouri | Member Since: 08/08/04 | IP: (159.140.254.10) | Report this post to a Moderator

TOF
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428816 posted 01/11/07 11:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah...I should have pointed out that I no longer own a PCV Valve. Instead I own a little piece of aluminum to cover up that nasty hole left whtn the PCV was removed.

| | | IP: (139.177.225.66) | Report this post to a Moderator

powerplay
Yes Man
525/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428867 posted 01/11/07 01:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If you are going to have a PCV and a catch can, I would put the PCV on the manifold side of the catch can, unless you want to pressurize the catch can. Of course the manifold vacuum will want to suck all of the crap out of the can as it sucks air in from the VC. You could pressurize the catch can and blow all of the snot out of it, but then you would have a boost/snot leak.



Scott
525

Posts: 2054 | From: Norwell, MA | Member Since: 07/24/04 | IP: (71.232.40.14) | Report this post to a Moderator

Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428869 posted 01/11/07 01:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Good point Scott. Not sure how well some catch cans would hold up to 15+ psi.



My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000

Posts: 8936 | From: NE, IN | Member Since: 01/10/05 | IP: (69.245.199.104) | Report this post to a Moderator

powerplay
Yes Man
525/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428876 posted 01/11/07 01:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Not to well, I wouldn't think. I run the two VC lines to vented catch can, no pcv, I have no problems. I think if the catch can is puking snot all over the engine bay, then there are other issues and I wouldn't want that stuff in my intake.



Scott
525

Posts: 2054 | From: Norwell, MA | Member Since: 07/24/04 | IP: (71.232.40.14) | Report this post to a Moderator

Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 428886 posted 01/11/07 01:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thats how I had mine for a while and it worked fine but I just didn't like the idea of all those oil vapors floating around in the crank case all the time. I noticed the oil was dirty really quickly. It also sprayed a fine mist of oil out of the breather filter out of the catch can at WOT. I could tell because after a WOT run there would be a very small film of oil behind the filter on the firewall. I just didn't like that. To each his own though.

I would rather it just go in the engine and get burned up. It can't affect performance much, if at all. Besides it will eventually have WI so that will keep everything shiny clean anyway.



My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000


Edited by Polish (01/11/07 01:53 PM)

Posts: 8936 | From: NE, IN | Member Since: 01/10/05 | IP: (69.245.199.104) | Report this post to a Moderator

CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 429310 posted 01/12/07 01:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

I run the two VC lines to vented catch can, no pcv, I have no problems. I think if the catch can is puking snot all over the engine bay, then there are other issues and I wouldn't want that stuff in my intake.




That's how I've currently got it set up and the filter on top of my catchcan spews oil mist all over that portion of the engine bay.



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

Posts: 8938 | From: West Simsbury, CT | Member Since: 08/30/04 | IP: (198.105.0.129) | Report this post to a Moderator

atc250r Galant VR4.org Moderator
Senior Ricer
1552/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 429358 posted 01/12/07 03:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ditch the PCV valve and put a 1/8" NPT x 3/8" hose barb fitting into the hole. Then you can run that along with a hose off of the stock breather line into a catch can or dump it onto the ground under the car. When I had a catch can it was a PITA to empty it all the time so i ran two of the fittings I mentioned above off of both the VC holes and ran a pair of 3/8" fuel hoses down between the front subframe and firewall. So little comes out of there that you won't be oiling the track down or anything. Lots of cars used to use that system and it was called a "road draft vent". That'll keep your intake nice and shiny inside.

John



"...if they're so into masochism, they should just really go all out and start modifying Mitsubishis. And using them as daily drivers." - Mike R.

Posts: 13235 | From: Orange County, NY | Member Since: 09/11/03 | IP: (70.107.40.78) | Report this post to a Moderator

powerplay
Yes Man
525/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 429433 posted 01/12/07 06:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I have the 3/8" fuel line running down from the bottom drain on the catch can. I never have to empty it, because I do what John said. When I am going for a drive on the highway, I open the drain and let the air running under the car suck the crap out of the can. There is so little coming out that it is much less oil than a normal car with an oil leak. I have never seen any indication of oil on the top of the catch can. I explained that to CY over as year ago to ditch the PCV valve and set it up that way. I have left it open for months at a time, because I forget to close it, and I never see anything on the garage floor under the hose. That said I have toyed with the idea of putting a little vacuum pump on there to suck the vapors out, but the ones the V8 guys use are way to expensive for something that is OK the way it is. To each his own. I have other things to worry about driving one of these cars.



Scott
525

Posts: 2054 | From: Norwell, MA | Member Since: 07/24/04 | IP: (71.232.40.14) | Report this post to a Moderator


Pages: 1 | 2 | 3
Previous thread Next thread

Extra information
0 registered and 14 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Galant VR4.org Moderator:  curtis, steve, atc250r, jcgalntvr4-244, cheekychimp, jepherz, Rausch, toybreaker, iceman69510, pot, FlyingEagle 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Thread views: 8722

Rate this thread


News & Events: News | Events
Galant VR-4: Newbies | General VR4 Discussions | Technical Discussions | How To and Info Archive
Marketplace: Parts For Sale | Cars For Sale | Good Guys | Bad Guys
Community: Members' Showcase

Contact Us | Privacy statement GalantVR-4.org

Generated in 0.119 seconds in which 0.055 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Turbo powered.


Hertz's Galant VR-4 Page