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Re: Post your FMIC and FMIC Info


CCDSM69
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23607 posted 10/17/03 01:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
check your PM's I gave you some info in there

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theymightbegalants
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23608 posted 10/17/03 04:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Doug, why do you say that short pipe routing has no affect at all on power or performance? It seems to me, that with the stock routing going over the hot manifold, it can absorb a lot of heat and then transfer that to the charge air. Not only is hot air less dense, thus less potential for power, it's more likely to knock, which not only robs power (timing) but is damaging. Also, the short piping uses less pipe, obviously, so there's less distance for the air to travel from the turbo to the TB, improving throttle response. Do you think this is untrue? If so, you could have 10 feet if IC piping wound spiral fashion around the manifold and downpipe, and this would be no more detrimental than a short IC pipe route?

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Clay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23609 posted 10/17/03 04:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
im sure there is a difference

my question is if the difference is worth the trouble of the work it takes to make the short route piping fit correctly

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Telecaster
Senior Member
1581/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23610 posted 10/17/03 05:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Evo V (19 x 11.5 x 2.75) outlets are 2.5 but i only have 2.25 piping:
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Ash
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23611 posted 10/18/03 03:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Beemer - I got it from a local truck dealer/repairer. They service Mack, Scania, DAF Volvo etc so I actually have no idea what it was originally off. [Frown] The whole core with tanks cost us $100au and after cutting out the damaged top/bottom sections we got enough to do both my car & a mate's SR20DET 180SX, hence we paid $50 each. [Big Grin] we modified the original end tanks to suit the 2 cars and there we were. The whole job cost a fair bit actually with the piping, silicon hose etc., it just sounds funny to say it's a $50 intercooler. [Smile] It keeps temps to within about 10 or 15 deg Celcius of ambeint, so it works alright.

V8Eater - I only cut the centre, lower triangle bit out, if that makes any sence?

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number3
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23612 posted 10/18/03 07:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
http://www.galantvr4.org/img.php?id=75

This is my car a few years back with a spearco core. 7.8" x 3" x 20" Custom piping.


http://www.galantvr4.org/img.php?id=362

http://www.galantvr4.org/img.php?id=330

http://www.whiterose.net/~dsm/images/

http://www.whiterose.net/~dsm/images/no3_front_low.jpg
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This is the current Spearco core I am using.

11" x 4" x 18" Custom piping.

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Scott Y
mighty skunk hunter
953/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23613 posted 10/18/03 11:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Extreme FMIC kit
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~syorga

Posts: 482 | From: Lakewood, Colorado, USA | Member Since: 05/08/01 | IP: (63.171.185.70) | Report this post to a Moderator

Doug Thomas
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23614 posted 10/18/03 11:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by theymightbegalants:
Doug, why do you say that short pipe routing has no affect at all on power or performance? It seems to me, that with the stock routing going over the hot manifold, it can absorb a lot of heat and then transfer that to the charge air. Not only is hot air less dense, thus less potential for power, it's more likely to knock, which not only robs power (timing) but is damaging. Also, the short piping uses less pipe, obviously, so there's less distance for the air to travel from the turbo to the TB, improving throttle response. Do you think this is untrue? If so, you could have 10 feet if IC piping wound spiral fashion around the manifold and downpipe, and this would be no more detrimental than a short IC pipe route?

In theory short route piping seems that it would be better, but from I’ve seen in the real world on Galants and some DSMs cars that run very fast at the track and dyno some good number with stock routing pipes the shorter piping doesn’t make a difference.

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Clay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23615 posted 10/18/03 01:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
hmm the extreme kit seems very appealing

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OrganicMechanic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23616 posted 10/18/03 05:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
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this is a split core that I sourced from a Semi truck. It is a garret core that is 32 inches across and 13 inchs tall. I had to split the core in half and had 2 IC cores for the price of one. I have done temp readings on it after a run and taken the temps from the end tanks and the temp drop is a 193F to ambient ..not to bad for a 75 dollar FMIC.

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a_santos
Brasileiro Turbinado


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23617 posted 10/18/03 05:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Here are a couple of pics of my setup. It is not the nicest, but it is very effective and was very light on the wallet.

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It is a supra intercooler. It works really well. No matter how hard I drive the car, the oulet side is always ambient temperature, never warm at all.

I really like it and there is no more lag than with the stock setup.

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Hibrn8
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23618 posted 10/18/03 07:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Spearco 2-221 with top to bottom flow end tanks. Piping made custom by me, all routed towards passenger side of car, due to same side inlet/outlet.

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galantvr4us
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23619 posted 10/18/03 07:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by Clay:
those of you with the short route piping, did you feel a difference when you went to short piping?

would you say it was worth the trouble of cutting and stuff to get shorter piping, or is the stock route just as good?

Stock route is just as good.

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Katie

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galantvr4us
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23620 posted 10/18/03 09:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by theymightbegalants:
Doug, why do you say that short pipe routing has no affect at all on power or performance? It seems to me, that with the stock routing going over the hot manifold, it can absorb a lot of heat and then transfer that to the charge air. Not only is hot air less dense, thus less potential for power, it's more likely to knock, which not only robs power (timing) but is damaging. Also, the short piping uses less pipe, obviously, so there's less distance for the air to travel from the turbo to the TB, improving throttle response. Do you think this is untrue? If so, you could have 10 feet if IC piping wound spiral fashion around the manifold and downpipe, and this would be no more detrimental than a short IC pipe route?

There have been tests on this and if I remember correctly you would actually have to route your piping almost the whole length of the car before you would see power drop. I thought the same thing until I was corrected.

Katie

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GVR$in
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23621 posted 10/18/03 09:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
:drooling: at Katie's car [Wink] .

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theymightbegalants
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23622 posted 10/18/03 11:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by galantvr4us:
There have been tests on this and if I remember correctly you would actually have to route your piping almost the whole length of the car before you would see power drop. I thought the same thing until I was corrected.

Katie

This is interesting, but I'm not just talking about a peak power drop. I think you could sit in traffic for 15 min. and heatsoak the crap out of the pipe over the exh. mani and the core, but once you get going and get not only air flowing over the front of the core, but through the pipes, thus absorbing the heat of the pipe and transmitting it to the core, there would be virtually no difference. But what about when you don't care about peak power? What if *gasp* you're not a drag racer and you care about throttle response, the shape of the torque curve when you don't have a lot of flow but high load, such as autocrossing? It's things like these where I would think that a short route is better. But, I'm not an engineer, and I've never done any quantitative testing in this area. Katie, do you happen to have any links or pointers to these tests you speak of?

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DookGVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23623 posted 10/18/03 11:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Katie....

Is that a shannon kit?..

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galantvr4us
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23624 posted 10/19/03 08:03 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by theymightbegalants:
quote:
Originally posted by galantvr4us:
There have been tests on this and if I remember correctly you would actually have to route your piping almost the whole length of the car before you would see power drop. I thought the same thing until I was corrected.

Katie

This is interesting, but I'm not just talking about a peak power drop. I think you could sit in traffic for 15 min. and heatsoak the crap out of the pipe over the exh. mani and the core, but once you get going and get not only air flowing over the front of the core, but through the pipes, thus absorbing the heat of the pipe and transmitting it to the core, there would be virtually no difference. But what about when you don't care about peak power? What if *gasp* you're not a drag racer and you care about throttle response, the shape of the torque curve when you don't have a lot of flow but high load, such as autocrossing? It's things like these where I would think that a short route is better. But, I'm not an engineer, and I've never done any quantitative testing in this area. Katie, do you happen to have any links or pointers to these tests you speak of?
Its in a book-I didn't read it myself but a friend of mine did. SOrry I can't remember if he said anything about throttle response. I just was told about the basics because he also did my intercooler pipe and I wanted shorter pipe in which he then explained tests they did and it would take a lot of pipe to show a difference. I do not remember the book.

Katie

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galantvr4us
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23625 posted 10/19/03 08:05 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by DookGVR4:
Katie....

Is that a shannon kit?..

No. Custom.

Katie

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number3
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23626 posted 10/19/03 08:30 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The quality and quanity of bends in your system are the key!

For every bend you add you add lenght to the system.


"If you take an 8 inch round pipe, 2 feet long and bend it 90 degrees, the air flow decreases as it makes the turn because of the pressure build up. This pressure is now greater than it would be in that same 2 foot piece of pipe when it was straight. This pressure is measured and compared to a straight piece of pipe without any bends. The result is - the 8 inch round pipe - 2 feet long, with a 90 degree bend, has the EQUIVALENT pressure of an 8 inch round straight piece of pipe 25 feet long. This sample is from the ACCA (Air Conditioning Contractors Association) duct work engineering manual."

Harry

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Clay
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23627 posted 10/19/03 10:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
katie what core is that?

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Doug Thomas
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23628 posted 10/19/03 11:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by number3:
The quality and quanity of bends in your system are the key!

For every bend you add you add lenght to the system.


"If you take an 8 inch round pipe, 2 feet long and bend it 90 degrees, the air flow decreases as it makes the turn because of the pressure build up. This pressure is now greater than it would be in that same 2 foot piece of pipe when it was straight. This pressure is measured and compared to a straight piece of pipe without any bends. The result is - the 8 inch round pipe - 2 feet long, with a 90 degree bend, has the EQUIVALENT pressure of an 8 inch round straight piece of pipe 25 feet long. This sample is from the ACCA (Air Conditioning Contractors Association) duct work engineering manual."

Harry

Again nice theory, but it doesn’t make a difference. The quality of the pipes is not going to make a difference no matter if it’s mild steel, stainless or aluminum. Have you every seen the pipe routing on the AMS EVO III?

I would think the intercooler you use is the most important. If you want to build a good intercooler system get yourself good intercooler to start with and when I say good I don’t mean a 16-year-old junkyard one.

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Doug Thomas
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23629 posted 10/19/03 11:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Does anyone have pics with the Spearco 2-216 core on their Galant where the bumper cover is not hanging and sagging? I really like that core, but hate the way the bumper cover fits over it.

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1quickvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23630 posted 10/19/03 11:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Its all in how you trim it, IF you cut the front bars out it will sag and if you chop the support in two it will sag, Dont cut the bumper cover and take as little of of the support as possible. I didnt have to do any cutting of the bumper or suppot on my jdm bumper with a street core. I did trim the core support and the hood latch support. When I had a US bumper, I cut the stock supports in 2 and cut out fins in the cover and it wasent to bad, But I think if your carfull and only cut what you need it should be a s solid as stock.

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Doug Thomas
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 23631 posted 10/19/03 12:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
quote:
Originally posted by 1quickvr4:
Its all in how you trim it, IF you cut the front bars out it will sag and if you chop the support in two it will sag, Dont cut the bumper cover and take as little of of the support as possible. I didnt have to do any cutting of the bumper or suppot on my jdm bumper with a street core. I did trim the core support and the hood latch support. When I had a US bumper, I cut the stock supports in 2 and cut out fins in the cover and it wasent to bad, But I think if your carfull and only cut what you need it should be a s solid as stock.

From the pics I’ve seen I figured they had no choice and had chop up the bumper to get it to fit. I know the Spearco 2-178 will fit with out a hacking up the bumper, but I don’t think it’s same with 2-216 because it’s so much bigger.

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