GalantVR4.org The Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Forum
NOTICE: This forum is for archiving information and discussions. Please do not reply to threads unless you have valuable information to add. Do not post questions or problems here.

Galant VR-4 Forums » Galant VR-4 » How To and Info Archive » 3G or EVO MAS wiring
Previous thread Next thread

3G or EVO MAS wiring


keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 172983 posted 01/15/05 07:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      

Pin 1 = +5 volts
Pin 2 = Barometer
Pin 3 = Airflow Hz
Pin 4 = +12 Volts from MPI
Pin 5 = Ground
Pin 6 = Intake Air Temp
Pin 7 = Reset

So, the correct crossover wiring to our MAS plug is:
3G/EVO Pin 1 to 1G MAS Pin 4
3G/EVO Pin 2 to 1G MAS Pin 7
3G/EVO Pin 3 to 1G MAS Pin 2
3G/EVO Pin 4 to 1G MAS Pin 3
3G/EVO Pin 5 to 1G MAS Pin 6
3G/EVO Pin 6 to 1G MAS Pin 8
3G/EVO Pin 7 to 1G MAS Pin 1

The GOOD 3G MAS to find is the #482, from the Variable-Induction V-6. It flows about 99% of what an EVO MAS does.
I cut up the base to our stock aircan, and mounted the 3G MAS inside, so it looks like stock! Pictures to follow.

| | | IP: (65.8.250.42) | Report this post to a Moderator

dsm_drew
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 172988 posted 01/15/05 07:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think this may have been discussed before, but what is required to compensate for the 3G MAS? Do you need a chip, or is it basically the same output as a 2G MAS?

| | | IP: (67.163.107.110) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 172989 posted 01/15/05 08:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I cut the front mounting ring off my old GVR-4 MAS, and JBWelded it to the 3G MAS:

I had to move the connector cutout about 1/4", due to interference with the 3G MAS. I JBWelded a piece of sheetmetal underneath the aircan, and another piece fitted to the hole, to bring it up flush. I also had to then drill new holes, and tap them:

I also had to JBWeld the connector gasket unto the connector, as there was no longer any way to attach it inside the aircan:

Here's the finished MAS, almost ready to put on the car:

I had hoped that this EVO K&N setup would all fit inside the aircan, but it was 1/8" -1/4" too long. With some work, or a slightly different filter assembly, I think it would fit. However, since my REAL intention was to use the 1G K&N I already had, I didn't try to make it fit:

To use the 1G K&N, I ended having to hack all 4 mounting corners off the 3G MAS, and also remove the plastic shroud that surrounds the 7-pin connector, to allow the filter to slide on easily. The only 2 bad things I ran into:
1) there isn't any place for my BCS return vacuum line, so I have a small vacuum leak at the moment
2) the step inside the aircan doesn't allow you to use a 3G connector, so I just soldered all 7 wires directly unto the pins, and shrinkwrapped them. I'll try to put a couple more pictures up (tomorrow when the rain stops)of the finished installation. It looks TOTALLY stock!
With my new 3G MAS correction code, #880 started right up, idled perfect, and runs wonderfully. I can actually feel the difference in power, just from removing the restriction the stock MAS causes.
I know other guys have used 3G MAS's, and have some issues, but I think most of the problems stem from the fact that this MAS flows 25% more air for the same Karman Hz as a 2G, and 67% more than a 1G, so you have to add a LOT of air on an AFC.


Edited by keydiver (01/15/05 08:05 PM)

| | | IP: (65.8.250.42) | Report this post to a Moderator

a_santos
Brasileiro Turbinado


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173007 posted 01/15/05 08:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So Jeff, what you are saying is the the best Mitsu MAF if the 3g or EVO mas? That is good news since they can be had for cheap.

I better start looking for one of those.



Abhay Schweitzer
www.techne-us.com

Posts: 2057 | From: San Diego, CA, USA | Member Since: 10/22/02 | IP: (68.41.75.130) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173012 posted 01/15/05 08:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The #482 V-6 MAS flows so close to an EVO MAS that the 2 could be interchanged, and no one would probably notice. The graphs I've drawn show them less than 1% different, as far as Hz per liter of air intake, airflow capacity, and air pressure drop.
I'm trying to get ahold of an EVO MAS, so that I can test it 100%. But, if you look at the #482 MAS, you will see that the entire 3" inlet is unobstructed, unlike the more common #501 MAS and others that have the airhorn covering part of the inlet.

| | | IP: (65.8.250.42) | Report this post to a Moderator

atc250r Galant VR4.org Moderator
Senior Ricer
1552/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173043 posted 01/16/05 12:23 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Jeff,

Is the #482 the one I sent down to you?

John



"...if they're so into masochism, they should just really go all out and start modifying Mitsubishis. And using them as daily drivers." - Mike R.

Posts: 13235 | From: Orange County, NY | Member Since: 09/11/03 | IP: (68.193.222.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

gvr4_power
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173086 posted 01/16/05 08:17 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Wow, great work. How does this compare to the GM maf?

| | | IP: (68.42.118.100) | Report this post to a Moderator

steve Galant VR4.org Administrator
Key Fob Guy


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173134 posted 01/16/05 12:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
And how does this compare to the 2g MAS?



I know it's a foreign idea for most of us here, but you might want to try taking the car off jackstands.
-mitsuturbo

Posts: 18895 | From: NJ | Member Since: 09/11/03 | IP: (24.149.153.62) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173166 posted 01/16/05 01:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Wow, great work. How does this compare to the GM maf?



I can't say, as I don't know all the specs on a GM 3" MAF, but I doubt it is quite as good. I'd say this MAS has got to be good to at least 400HP, like the 2G, but the GM MAF is made for MUCH higher HP applications. But, its not nearly plug-and-play, and then you have all the tuning hassles. I'd say that if your HP goals are 400HP or less, this MAS would be a better choice.

Quote:

And how does this compare to the 2g MAS?



Its gotta be better! According to the spec sheets, the #482 MAS and EVO MAS have <.5 psi of pressure drop at 240 liters of air per second, whereas the 2G is listed as a maximum of almost 1 psi at the same airflow. The 3G/EVO MAS flow 25% more air for the same Karman Hz, as I said, so they are not directly interchangeable. But, the 3G/EVO has the EXTRA advantage of having a ROUND outlet, making it MUCH easier to work with than a 2G. I can DEFINITELY FEEL the difference in #880, although its 99% stock.

And, yes John, thank you VERY much for the little present. As you can see, its going to good use. In the long run, it may not be what #880 ends up with, but it gives me the ability to test and tune it so others can benefit too. I plan to do the same thing with a 3" GM MAF, so I can swap it in too for testing.

| | | IP: (65.8.250.42) | Report this post to a Moderator

atc250r Galant VR4.org Moderator
Senior Ricer
1552/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173232 posted 01/16/05 06:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It was the least I could do for you after all the help you've given me.

John



"...if they're so into masochism, they should just really go all out and start modifying Mitsubishis. And using them as daily drivers." - Mike R.

Posts: 13235 | From: Orange County, NY | Member Since: 09/11/03 | IP: (68.193.222.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

bujang_hensem
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173286 posted 01/16/05 07:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
" this MAS flows 25% more air for the same Karman Hz as a 2G, and 67% more than a 1G, so you have to add a LOT of air on an AFC. "

Jeff base on you info 2G MAS flow 29% more than stock 1G...so 67%(1g) - 25%(2g) = 42% different...but why 1G to 2G only 29%...is there a way to calculate this...

1. 1G to 2G = 29% ,so if I change the to 2G MAS, can I just add 29% on the safc for all RPM point from stock setting? (MY ECU are JDM dual board so can't logging..need to go wideband dyno for actual setting confirmation, so i need the base setting first before going for dyno..so far changing from 1G MAS to 2G MAS i can feel it pull a bit harder than before)

2. some of 2G come from stock with screw flush out and some are in..like mine i got stock evo3 (2G mas) with screw flush out...it's it still 29% different

3. 3G MAS / Evo MAS flow that you are calculate base on screw in or out?

| | | IP: (203.82.64.10) | Report this post to a Moderator

Yiuwa
Right-hand Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173335 posted 01/16/05 11:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I also have another question - since this MAS has round exit could it be installed right before throttle body elbow (i.e. after turbo) like the others do in GMAF setup? If that's feasible then my vent-to-atmosphere BOV won't give me wrong airflow figure after letting go some calculated air (don't blame my setup, I know I shouldn't be doing this




1992 RHD Hong Kong ver E39A

Posts: 641 | From: Pokfulam, Hong Kong | Member Since: 08/10/03 | IP: (218.103.199.101) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173510 posted 01/17/05 01:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I don't think so. The MAS wasn't intended for the heated air post-turbo. I can't tell you what would happen.

| | | IP: (68.215.3.96) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173513 posted 01/17/05 01:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

1. 1G to 2G = 29% ,so if I change the to 2G MAS, can I just add 29% on the safc for all RPM point from stock setting?



Yes, thats a good place to start, except at idle/low airflow. This should help:
http://www.dsmchips.com/~keydiver/MAS_CORRECTION_1G_2G_3G.xls
It shows the correction that is in the ECU for the different MAS's, compared to each other.

Quote:

2. some of 2G come from stock with screw flush out and some are in..like mine i got stock evo3 (2G mas) with screw flush out...it's it still 29% different



I wouldn't touch the screw. That is a factory calibration, to make the MAS flow to match the curves in the ECU. If you turn the screw out further, you will have to add more airflow on the AFC.

Quote:

3. 3G MAS / Evo MAS flow that you are calculate base on screw in or out?



The charts are all with the screw as set by Mitsubishi.


Edited by keydiver (01/17/05 02:53 PM)

| | | IP: (68.215.3.96) | Report this post to a Moderator

steve Galant VR4.org Administrator
Key Fob Guy


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173875 posted 01/18/05 08:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

The MAS wasn't intended for the heated air post-turbo.




Neither was the GM-MAF, right?



I know it's a foreign idea for most of us here, but you might want to try taking the car off jackstands.
-mitsuturbo

Posts: 18895 | From: NJ | Member Since: 09/11/03 | IP: (208.215.178.150) | Report this post to a Moderator

howard
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173884 posted 01/18/05 09:03 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Quote:

The MAS wasn't intended for the heated air post-turbo.




Neither was the GM-MAF, right?




Well, no, but it's also based on a different measurement principle, "hot-wire", which lends itself better to blow-through applications. Not to mention the GM MAF's are shaped/sized in a way that works easily (round, adapts to IC pipes easily).

| | | IP: (129.120.57.175) | Report this post to a Moderator

Bimmubishi
giant log


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173910 posted 01/18/05 09:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Any comments on the MAF's internal tables and airflow count capabilities? Not just the physical airflow properties.

The 2G looks to be bigger than the EVO at a glance this is why I ask. I assume that the EVO is a more developed unit.

Posts: 5701 | From: Boston, Massachusetts | Member Since: 07/15/03 | IP: (128.197.64.109) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173972 posted 01/18/05 11:41 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Any comments on the MAF's internal tables and airflow count capabilities? Not just the physical airflow properties.




One spec I CAN compare from the data I have is the pressure drop:
about .5 psi MAX for the 3G
almost 1 psi for the 2G. But, this is the MAXIMUM manufacturing spec, so there is nothing saying they all lose that much.
Another spec to compare is the maximum airflow they are made to count:
2G = 2700 Hz MAX at .1153 Hz per liter = 311 liters per second
3G = 2200 Hz MAX at .1478 Hz per liter = 325 liters per second
When you compare this to the anemic 1G MAS with .090 liter per Hz and a 2000 Hz safe cap, thats only 180 lps!
As you said, I think looks must be deceiving, because the 2G MAS appears larger in cross-sectional flow.
Also, if you look at the graph I posted, the 3G is much more linear at the lower airflows, again indicating that it is a more refined MAS perhaps.
This MAS was designed to be used on some big V-6's, like the 3.5l Montero Sport, or the Eclipse GTS model I believe.

| | | IP: (68.215.1.76) | Report this post to a Moderator

G Galant VR4.org Moderator
JDM Unit
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 173980 posted 01/18/05 11:49 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
WHAT do you think an evo 8 mas is worth ? street price.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

Posts: 8896 | From: zompton | Member Since: 02/24/04 | IP: (24.145.203.98) | Report this post to a Moderator

Garfield Wright
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 174214 posted 01/18/05 06:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

WHAT do you think an evo 8 mas is worth ? street price.




Is there anything that you won't sell?

| | | IP: (66.176.228.110) | Report this post to a Moderator

G Galant VR4.org Moderator
JDM Unit
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 174219 posted 01/18/05 06:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Quote:

WHAT do you think an evo 8 mas is worth ? street price.




Is there anything that you won't sell?




lol ! i'm trying to buy one from someone.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

Posts: 8896 | From: zompton | Member Since: 02/24/04 | IP: (24.145.203.98) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 174253 posted 01/18/05 07:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

WHAT do you think an evo 8 mas is worth ? street price.



They seem to be rather expensive. Not too many EVO guys are getting rid of them, and all the junkyards on car-part.com seem to want ~$200 for them. Thats why the #482 is such a good deal, they are more like $50-$75, and the performance is practically as good.
By the way, if you are scrounging for a #482, the full part number is like MD336482, IIRC, and the other number, the one you will see on car-part.com most often, is E5T08071.
The more I drive #880 with this MAS, the more I like it!

| | | IP: (65.8.250.42) | Report this post to a Moderator

Ian M
waiting for the bus
487/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 174270 posted 01/18/05 08:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      



Quote:

This MAS was designed to be used on some big V-6's, like the 3.5l Montero Sport, or the Eclipse GTS model I believe.





Not sure If they all do,but I worked on a 3.5 Montero Sport a few days ago,It had a #501 MAS.



#487/2000 Summit White

Posts: 2343 | From: Martinsburg,WV | Member Since: 01/11/02 | IP: (69.160.75.195) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 174281 posted 01/18/05 09:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hmmmm...well, are you SURE it wasn't a 3.0 liter?? According to my CAPS, all Montero Sports with a 3.5 liter, K89W or K99W, use the #482 MAS.
Also, acording to CAPS, some Eclipse 3.0 liters, starting in 2002, had it, I believe it was a GT-S model.
Also, they used it in SOME 3.5 liter Montero Long Wagons, the V75W, and ALL Montero 3.8 liter Long Wagons, V77W. We're talking an engine with almost TWICE our cc's!

| | | IP: (65.8.250.42) | Report this post to a Moderator

Ian M
waiting for the bus
487/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 174331 posted 01/18/05 10:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I was thinking all the Sports had the 3.5l,after a Google search I may be mistaken... I wish I knew then it was something I was going to need to remember!



#487/2000 Summit White

Posts: 2343 | From: Martinsburg,WV | Member Since: 01/11/02 | IP: (69.160.75.195) | Report this post to a Moderator


Pages: 1 | 2 | 3
Previous thread Next thread

Extra information
0 registered and 6 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Galant VR4.org Moderator:  curtis, steve, atc250r, jcgalntvr4-244, cheekychimp, jepherz, Rausch, toybreaker, iceman69510, pot, FlyingEagle 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Thread views: 25953

Rate this thread


News & Events: News | Events
Galant VR-4: Newbies | General VR4 Discussions | Technical Discussions | How To and Info Archive
Marketplace: Parts For Sale | Cars For Sale | Good Guys | Bad Guys
Community: Members' Showcase

Contact Us | Privacy statement GalantVR-4.org

Generated in 0.071 seconds in which 0.021 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Turbo powered.



Hertz's Galant VR-4 Page