Amen!
The OP brought up holsets.
A few bullet points from the discussion so far to lighten up the air. Nothing personal:
-- Rating a turbine housing's performance with different wheels is like rating a bikini. I'll wear it. You tell me how it looks. . . Don't blame a poor choice in turbine wheel & turbine housing combination on the turbine housing.
-- FP sheep don't like other turbos. No matter how they get beat. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gifJust messing here. Don't take that personal.
-- E85 yields the same results with lower boost than pump gas (go figure).
-- Don't compare 2 different frame-size turbos. . . Oops! My dang. The cars are about 100lbs different in weight too. I really thought we would see that a turbine intended for faster spool and less flow can compete with a larger turbine with more flow potential. Nope, FP3052 should be compaired to the same spool speed HX40. Think about that one for a moment as you gaze at the comparison dyno map of the hx40 vs. the gt3076r
-- 650whp out of a maxed out compressor and 500whp out of a maxed out compressor doesn't matter. The BEP housing doesn't flow worth sh!t. Why? see second bullet. . . Or see first bullet for a laugh.
-- We all care about impressing our internet aquaintances
--Some 4g63 guys don't look at or know how to diagnose a log. There is no proof of anything! We insist on seat time in a strangers car, a video of that seat time clearly showing the boost gauge, and EVERYONE running the same turbo to do the same. Alas... see second bullet. Or skip the rest because logs belong in the toilet.
-- When a turbo producer builds a better turbo and everyone buys it, it's a fad. When another builds a better turbo for the same price the fad fades. It's not like us 4g63 guys really picked the new turbo because it's better. We picked it because the last poster said it was better. Or see second bullet. No don't do that. You see the point. And you're a competent turbocharger consumer.
-- Holsets can't be a fad. No one runs them because they SUCK! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
-- There are no Holset "nutswingers" with DSMs. Because they DON'T spool that fast and they ARN'T proven.
-- Us DSMers are all wise. I didn't look at what these turbos do with other similar platforms. Nor should I. There's NOTHING like a 4g63.
-- See first bullet. Let's think about Jessica Alba in that bikini, instead. We all agree on that!!!
--I think megasquirt is a little overrated. That's not a bullet But I am trying to meet on a commonground with some.
Really guys. Let's stop and look. You don't see the proof in the spool speed? Did you look at my logs? Did you look at the powerband of the g-t-3-0-7-6-r vs. the HX40. Tha dynograph was a comparison of those 2 turbos. Lets forget that the hx40 has a 68lb/min compressor map and a p-trim size turbine wheel. Does the hx40 have the same powerband as the gt30r? Now, w'ell actually have to look at the link to the dynograph and looked at the caption and labels, or of course I'm just one of those holset 'fans'. H1C 54mm to be exact.
Do you really not see the proof of flow? How tall is that dyno graph? Remember there is a ptrim size turbine wheel in that turbo and a 68lb/min compressor. We ALL likely have significantly above average intelligence. How else could we keep a DSM on the road after beating the he!! out of it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. So, with our intelligence, how does a gt35r match up to a gt30r? So then through a math term, syllagism, how does the gt35r match up to the hx40 in the bep housing?
Who ever is reading this, YOU may not have enough proof for it to be a turbo YOU would buy. But simply stating that is all one needs to do to make their point, correct? What one person studies in a choice is not what another studies. Some don't mind that not many even run these turbos on 4g63 cars. Some do. What else can you say? That the numbers don't count because there are not enough guys running these turbos? Well, who else will run these so that there will be enough? ...The next guy that wants to take a stab at it. It's not really a mature point of view to cast doubt on something because not many use it. If you NEW that it would perform the same and cost half. If you really NEW, would you still not buy it?
How did we ever get the 20g on the 4g63? Some don't care about 'culture'. But, I think those that are proud of their car can say that it's success came from a culture of do-it-yourselfers who let their car teach them and took the next step. Where were we to go back then, after pushing the limits of the 16g? These guys didn't have money for a garret change over. There wasn't even a garret flanged exhaust manifold. I don't have the money either. But I know a little something about my car. And I see the proof in the form of realworld dyno graphs, track results, and actual logs on real setups.
Does the percentage of failure to meet a goal of 550+ whp REALLY go up if you choose a holset hx40 with the bep housing over a gt35r? Or a bolton hx35 over a gt30r?
There arn't many using the holset because there arn't many using the holset. That's still not a good reason not to use one... for most. There arnt' many using theholset because there isn't much information about them. That's believable. It's not because they don't perform. Why should Curt Brown use a holset? He's not being sponsored by a holset supplier. This is where investment dollars pay off. Retention and word of mouth advertizing because there is no other proof. I'll tell you one thing! If Serge, Brown, Kwaitkowski, put these numbers in this thread, EVERYONE would think a little different. That is Curt Brown's price to FP and deservedly so. FP has earned the money and Curt Brown is a master at making a 4cylinder fast.
Look at it this way. If a "no name" (no offense to you Badman21) made 650+whp with a little known turbo, what can a "name" do with it? Since we don't have the skills of the named, does it even matter what a "name" can do? Out of 10 backyard machanics, 5 went to the track and 5 are running LOW 11s. And the rest are seeing 40+ lb/min airflow. All the turbos spool to 20+ psi by 4100rpms with the bep housing. Where the bep housing goes with these turbos has been proven, with track times and dynographs. Yes, the rest is up to your opinion.
Thanx Brian for the words of advice and the good wishes. I THINK I'll be the first with actual track time with an H1C. There's another who's biting at the bit but he's got alot of tuning to get down and I don't think the track is even open now. So far we both have seen over 40lb/min in the bolton housing with stock manifolds and displacement. I've got to rebuild, but that's a good winter project. I will be putting my setup in an AWD chassis. So that should give a better gauge. Tim has requested that the tuners guys open a results thread. . .
Holset Turbos, RESULTS ONLY (COMPLETE INSTALLED SYSTEMS)
-- Last bullet. D@mn, Matt is too preachy. AMEN! Yes, my wife cringes when I get on my soap box. I apologize /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
. . .For those that DO want to actaully see the spool speed of this 650whp hx40 turbocharger, here's badmans car:
turbosharky. No antilag with the clutch pedal lifted:
sharky launch. He's not using Antilag at the begining of first because as, you can see in the previous video, wheelspin on drag radials is already an issue.
