I plan on replacing my rings but I'm not planning on pulling the engine. For those of you who have completed this same task what advise would you offer? Did you run into any problems or have any tricks to make things go a little smoother? I don't plan on reusing too many parts but might have to use some, what should I avoid reusing? I don't plan on this being a long lasting rebuild but I want it safe. I plan to buy a fully built motor next spring and then building my current one as a backup. As far as I know the head has already been rebuilt, but my compression is low and the turbo is shot I think. It does have oil in the plumbing. I don't think it's a MHI 16g but looks like Ebay, doesn't seem to have any visible stamping. I'm going to pull that today and find out for sure. I've gathered that I need to pull a lot of the front end off to drop the pan. Well I better get cracking. Thanks in advance.
The Top Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Resource
Join the best E39A 1991-1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 community and document your GVR4 journey.
- Software Upgraded - Reset Your Password to Login
In order to log in after the forum software change, you need to reset your password. If you don't have access to the email address you used to register your GVR4.org account, you won't be able to reset your password. In that case, follow the instructions here to regain access to the forum.
Ring replacement w/ engine in car
- Thread starterse7enine
- Start date
AnotherNewb
Well-known member
Hurry up and pull the head off so you can decide to pull the motor out and have it bored. Have you done a leak down test to verify why you have low compression? Even though you believe the head has been rebuilt it may have not been installed properly with a quality head gasket. The sucky thing about doing a re-ring in the car is you have to be careful not to go too deep with your hone and smack the crank.
Just pull the motor, it's not going to be too much more work and your end result will be much cleaner.
Just pull the motor, it's not going to be too much more work and your end result will be much cleaner.
Finally got my turbo off, maybe you turbo experts can help me verify this turbo as this is the first i've ever owned. It's pretty clean on the compressor side but the turbine wheel is soaked in oil. There is also a bit of side play. The number 4 exhaust port looks soaked in oil as well. Here are a few shots I got.
Quoting AnotherNewb:
Hurry up and pull the head off so you can decide to pull the motor out and have it bored. Have you done a leak down test to verify why you have low compression? Even though you believe the head has been rebuilt it may have not been installed properly with a quality head gasket. The sucky thing about doing a re-ring in the car is you have to be careful not to go too deep with your hone and smack the crank.
Just pull the motor, it's not going to be too much more work and your end result will be much cleaner.
I think I will pull the motor after all, that will give me an excuse to buy a hoist and engine stand. Plus I really don't want to fuss with those belts while in the engine bay. The timing belt does look new and not a grove or mark to be found. It doesn't look like any of the accessory belts were replaced. I did notice that all my exhaust gaskets did fall apart as well as my turbo return line gaskets. Also my oil inlet pipe only had a single brass ring on both ends. Is this normal? I thought there should be two per banjo. I will pull the head tomorrow and see if the head gasket shows any signs of failure too. I can also check the head for any stuck valves and what not. I miss the simplicity of my 22RE but this is such a great platform and I enjoy this sorta stuff. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hurry up and pull the head off so you can decide to pull the motor out and have it bored. Have you done a leak down test to verify why you have low compression? Even though you believe the head has been rebuilt it may have not been installed properly with a quality head gasket. The sucky thing about doing a re-ring in the car is you have to be careful not to go too deep with your hone and smack the crank.
Just pull the motor, it's not going to be too much more work and your end result will be much cleaner.
I think I will pull the motor after all, that will give me an excuse to buy a hoist and engine stand. Plus I really don't want to fuss with those belts while in the engine bay. The timing belt does look new and not a grove or mark to be found. It doesn't look like any of the accessory belts were replaced. I did notice that all my exhaust gaskets did fall apart as well as my turbo return line gaskets. Also my oil inlet pipe only had a single brass ring on both ends. Is this normal? I thought there should be two per banjo. I will pull the head tomorrow and see if the head gasket shows any signs of failure too. I can also check the head for any stuck valves and what not. I miss the simplicity of my 22RE but this is such a great platform and I enjoy this sorta stuff. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
rdomeck
Well-known member
+1 one pulling the engine. Your going to do a more complete job by having it out on a stand. Not to mention getting the block clean in the car after you run a hone down the bores would be impossible!
Chief_Mak
Well-known member
That's a fleabay china special turbo. Works great as a door stopper, but that's about all it's good for.
Barnes
Well-known member
What are the actual compression numbers?
1941Galant
Well-known member
Your valve stem seals could also be shot with the oil in the exhaust runner like that. It isn't impossible to repair while the engine is in the car either.
If I remember correctly
#4 104
#3 104
#2 100
#1 99
Some where around there. Wet was maybe 1-2 psi more in #1 cylinder. Wanted to do the leak down but didn't want to run the engine to warm it up because of all the blue and white smoke from my turbo. I also don't have a leak down gauge kit. But I figured with numbers that low it was time for a rebuild anyways /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif You guys have more experience with this stuff, what do you think? I'm going to pull the head today and see if it was actually rebuilt and inspect the head gasket. I thought since I'm not the original owner that I would just start fresh with new reliable gaskets and ARP all around just to be safe. Like I said earlier, most of the exhaust gaskets fell apart upon removal. I suspect that quality parts were not used and I want to be sure.
#4 104
#3 104
#2 100
#1 99
Some where around there. Wet was maybe 1-2 psi more in #1 cylinder. Wanted to do the leak down but didn't want to run the engine to warm it up because of all the blue and white smoke from my turbo. I also don't have a leak down gauge kit. But I figured with numbers that low it was time for a rebuild anyways /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif You guys have more experience with this stuff, what do you think? I'm going to pull the head today and see if it was actually rebuilt and inspect the head gasket. I thought since I'm not the original owner that I would just start fresh with new reliable gaskets and ARP all around just to be safe. Like I said earlier, most of the exhaust gaskets fell apart upon removal. I suspect that quality parts were not used and I want to be sure.
Jason G.
Well-known member
I've replaced rings while the engine was in the car before. It was a desperation move on my part and I planned on doing a thorough rebuild once I got a daily driver and a place with a garage. It worked fine, but I did eventually get around to properly rebuilding it once I could get around to it.
I prefer just pulling the motor out...
I prefer just pulling the motor out...
Last edited:
Barnes
Well-known member
Did you do the test with the throttle plate open? Did you try the oil-in-the-cylinder trick to see if that bumped up the compression?
Those numbers ARE low, BUT they are very consistent. Considering your altitude (4,500ft) and maybe a few other factors I could see these numbers being artificially low making you think your rings are bad when in fact they aren't. From what I've seen over the years these motors just 'wearing out' is extremely rare unless the car was treated very poorly.
Those numbers ARE low, BUT they are very consistent. Considering your altitude (4,500ft) and maybe a few other factors I could see these numbers being artificially low making you think your rings are bad when in fact they aren't. From what I've seen over the years these motors just 'wearing out' is extremely rare unless the car was treated very poorly.
Last edited:
Barnes
Well-known member
A few psi? Like 2psi? If you put in oil and your compression went up only 2psi you either didn't put enough oil in, or your rings are fine. I think you simply have some bad valve seals, and maybe some bad valve guides. I think those low compression numbers are due to a bad gauge or some other effect. From my quick searches I'm finding that your compression tests should go up a LOT (like 30psi or more) if you add oil and rings are the problems.
If you want to be really sure you could rent/borrow a different compression tester, and try again.
I think pulling the head off is reasonable as you'll probably want it to get pulled apart, tested, seals replaced and maybe some guides.
If you want to be really sure you could rent/borrow a different compression tester, and try again.
I think pulling the head off is reasonable as you'll probably want it to get pulled apart, tested, seals replaced and maybe some guides.
turbowop
Well-known member
Quoting se7enine:
I did test it WOT and when I did add oil to the lowest cylinder it bumped it up a couple psi.
When you did said compression test, was the engine at full operating temp? The important thing is that the cylinders are consistent.
I would pull the head and get it rebuilt with fresh seals and guides. New headgasket and possibly ARP's and you should be good to go.
I did test it WOT and when I did add oil to the lowest cylinder it bumped it up a couple psi.
When you did said compression test, was the engine at full operating temp? The important thing is that the cylinders are consistent.
I would pull the head and get it rebuilt with fresh seals and guides. New headgasket and possibly ARP's and you should be good to go.
Last edited:
I tried to get it as warm as I could. I didn't drive it like I wanted because it was smoking real bad but I did let it idle until the fans came on. I really didn't want to damage anything else like my ECU incase that was damaged from the ISC I had replaced. I also made sure to set the timing and idle as per service manual and the TPS with an ohm meter. I was quick to blame the turbo only because when I smelled the smoke it didn't smell sweet like normal blown head gaskets would. I blew a hg in my first car (1981 BMW 528i) I remember the smell. But I also don't know what a blown turbo smells like so that's why I wanted to inspect my turbo and to rebuild. I'm in no rush as I have a daily driver but I would like to enjoy driving this beast before the snow falls again. I have a $1500 budget for now but that's not what I told the Wife, so I would like to keep this as inexpensive as possible but not cheap. Was hoping to throw the standard 14b back on and replace the ECU with the correct one to hold me over till I can diagnose any other problems and then start upgrading properly. Nothing crazy. My daily is slow so I can be content with 250HP - 300HP. I just want to do it right and not backwards. Since I picked this thing up I have been just upgrading the maintenance stuff like TPS and ISC to help with the idle. Didn't even get a chance to make a boost leak tester before it started to smoke and I finally said screw it, I'm gonna get things sorted from the block up. So now I'm here and picking your brains.
Last edited:
turbowop
Well-known member
I don't know if I'd go about diagnosing the car by smells. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
That turbo is suspect, and valve seals on these cars are notorious leakers when they get old. Like Jon said, rarely due these bottom ends just wear out.
That turbo is suspect, and valve seals on these cars are notorious leakers when they get old. Like Jon said, rarely due these bottom ends just wear out.
I was just using the smell to help me rule things out. I'm no expert in these matters. The oil drained clean and so did the coolant. I was using the smell to help point me in the right direction. I'm doing this on my own and all I have is my own judgement. It my not always be correct but it's all I got. I can't rely on the PO's word as to what has been fixed or replaced so I'm doing my best as to get a handle on what's wrong and learn at the same time. Thanks for the input too guys I really appreciate it, I will take all the help I can get. I work 10's so my days are busy and my nights as well so I do what I can when I can. Family life and multiple car projects are not easy to juggle.
misterfixit
Well-known member
If the bottom looks ok, which from the discussion above it looks like it is. And the head has been 'rebuilt' then thats the first thing I'd start looking at. The oil on no4 exhaust port is enough to make me want to know whats going on there. Pull the head and go from there.
If you are not sure of the bores, set all the pistons level and fill the bores with kerosene. Leave it overnight and check they go down at the same rate (very slowly)
It is possible to hone the bores with the crank in. You just have to move the journal on the bore you are working on to the bottom and wad it with alot of clean rag (cotton t-shirt type material) then you have to be extra careful to clean the bore up afterwards (lots of cotton and solvent)
But like is said above it's not for definate yet you need to break into the bottom end. As a quick question whats the breather look like? Is that wet? If the bottom is in need of attention all the blowby has to go somewhere...
Rich
If you are not sure of the bores, set all the pistons level and fill the bores with kerosene. Leave it overnight and check they go down at the same rate (very slowly)
It is possible to hone the bores with the crank in. You just have to move the journal on the bore you are working on to the bottom and wad it with alot of clean rag (cotton t-shirt type material) then you have to be extra careful to clean the bore up afterwards (lots of cotton and solvent)
But like is said above it's not for definate yet you need to break into the bottom end. As a quick question whats the breather look like? Is that wet? If the bottom is in need of attention all the blowby has to go somewhere...
Rich
