Does the GVR-4 have the same potential as a DSM? Bench Racing Question kinda..

Lol, not to get you all bent out of shape but I am really curious. I mean mod for mod is the GVR-4 just about as fast overall?

What I am getting at is the extra weight that the GVR-4 has. Do both cars do about the same in the quarter mod for mod is what I want to know?

Is there any reason that mod for mod our GVR-4 wouldn't have the same potential to run high 7's in the Quarter like John Shepherd's DSM?

I would think that the larger frontal area of the GVR-4 would be advantageous for cooling etc over a DSM and that the shorter 1st gear is an asset (to a degree).

I know it's kind of a vague question but one I have always wondered.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[ktmrider]

Hmm, my 2 cents:

1. Mod for mod yes the GVR4 will follow the DSM's
2. You already mentioned the fatter GVR4 difference
3. Chopping and hacking up a ( perfectly good ) GVR4 to get it below 10 seconds would be somewhat sacreligious

That said if you had a rust-bucket or already hacked GVR4 then sure why not?!?

 

FATTER hahaahahahah!

 

Fatter is a big deal, but one that can be taken care of. But the wheelbase of the galant is longer, which although minimal, is an advantage in the straight line. The overall CG is higher, because the car is taller, which although minimal, hurts us when cornering. That's about all I can think of.

 

[donkeylips]

You say that the larger frontal area is advantageous for cooling, but I would think that in the quarter mile the aerodynamic advantage of the DSM is much more important.

 

[Nartanian]

Interesting question. I think mod for mod, the extra weight of a gvr4 has to make it somewhat slower than a 1g dsm though. By how much? That I don't know.

 

[SouthCaliVR4]

Wait, I thought tel's had the shorter first gear?!? anyway, not a real consideration in choosing one car over the other as it can be changed. Advantage Galant, wheelbase. Advantage tel, weight & aerodynamics.

 

The GVR-4 has the shorter first gear...but that could probably be a hinderance with lots of power I'd imagine.

Neat responses everyone! I know that you can make anything fast but it's good that you all understood that I was just talking apples to apples (or something close like that).

 

[turbowop]

No, the GVR4 has the taller (and weaker) first gear.

 

You are right.

 

[H05TYL]

The galant has the advantage of looking much more sophisticated - it's like the difference between wearing a tracksuit and a pin striped suit. It may be marginally easier to fend off a mugger whilst wearing a tracksuit - but it's infinitely cooler to do so whilst dressed for a black tie dinner.

 

[cheekychimp]

I don't think you can ever get away from the weight issue. If you are talking strictly mod for mod, I don't think the Galant could ever win the power to weight ratio which is where it is at essentially, straight line or circuit! Take a look at some of the threads on weight reduction (I think Pivvay has an old post in the How To Section outlining the weights of stuff he pulled) and see what a GVR4 tops out at after some serious "slimming" exercise, then look at the base weight of your average Talon WITH a/c, power windows, other creature comforts etc.

From a strictly performance stand point, I'm sorry but if you are building a race only car with the intention of going as fast as possible, I simply cannot fathom why you would start with a VR4.

The same goes perhaps even on the street (mod for mod) but the point is you can never go FLAT OUT on the street unless you are truly reckless. A street setup therefore, can be just as tactical, picking the best gear ratios, the right compromise between power and spool up in the turbo, the emphasis on the headwork (low down torque or top end power). I think you can build a GVR4 to hold it's own against a DSM but if you are truly speaking 'mod for mod' you will never get away from the weight disadvantage entirely.

I think the issue with these cars is that most of the enthusiasts that own them have a good understanding of DSMs in general and the 4G63 engine and AWD transmissions in particular. They use that knowledge to build a car that is powerful enough to offset the additional weight and give the DSM owners a real run for their money, because it is so much more fun to do it in a sleeper and a comfortable 4-door saloon to boot. They all know if they transferred the same setup and knowledge to a lighter car they could go faster but most of them don't want to give up the comfort of the VR4 or be just another DSMer.

I'm sure the owners of many Brabus, AMG and AC Schnitzer cars could easily afford a Lotus or a Porsche but there is something rather sophisticated about doing the 'double ton' in limousine air-conditioned luxury compared to doing it inside a sweaty, cramped, deafening tin box. Okay that's a bit unfair to Lotus and Porsche owners because some of those cars are extremely comfortable too, but you get the point right?

 

[prove_it]

I drive my VR4 and have it set up for street tuning. I do this because its a sleeper on the street. We have a metro area of about 300,000 people and I am the only one cruising in a VR4. It's a great feeling. Once I build a race car though, I'll probably pick up a starion, Grand national, or at the least a dsm. There are better platforms for racing. VR4's in my opinion are more suited for cruising and some street show offs. There are a few members running high 10's and 11's. Which in my opinion are quite damn fast.

 

[mpt72]

Mod for mod, the dsm would win. However, once the cops start looking for a couple of street racers, the vr4 blends into crowd much better. Stealth and conceilment over anything else is always a plus.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

agreed x1000
I have gotten out of being pulled over MANY times thanks to my 'sleeper effect'
one time there was a honda feg who thought his ebay fart cannon was the shiz, so I opened my cutout and did a quick rev to like 5k right as a cop turn the corner. he pulled over the truck beside me and gave him a noise ordinance ticket

 

[SmoothCustomer]

I used to drive past cops all the time with my loud exhaust and no front plate. Never even got a warning.

 

[bmxkid415]

Eric, To this day I still don't run a front plate. I worked in Greece (you may know how bad them police are for such things) and I didn't get messed with. The Galant is such a nice sleeper to the average Joe

 

yup x1000^1000! I had a bright red 2g. My best ticket was in that car. Sure mod for mod, at the track 1g has the advantage, the 2g is probably negligible. But how can you put a price on stealth? When I was younger I HAD to have sexy, now, I like to be on the DL. Plus if I had raced every fart-piped ricer that try to pull up on me in my eclipse, I would have lost my license in a week. I try to make it a sleeper with 2G-b gs 5 spokes but made no difference.

 

[SmoothCustomer]

Quoting bmxkid415:
Eric, To this day I still don't run a front plate. I worked in Greece (you may know how bad them police are for such things) and I didn't get messed with. The Galant is such a nice sleeper to the average Joe



Greece is horrible. Luckily you don't even need a front plate in FL.

 

Power wise the gvr4 can match the tel 1:1 but as a lot have said, the weight thing & aerodynamics are killers for the gvr4. For the amount of money you'd have to spend to make the gvr4 compete with the Shep's 1g, you're better off starting with a 1g.