Anyone running 17c or 19c?

[JNR]

don't understand why people say these cars/engines are not reliable and can withstand a good amount of power w/o having to spend a lot of $$ on "names". Obviously we're not talking about full on race cars, but strong DD's.

The problem is when people hack these up and/or don't know what they're doing and as mentioned don't "tune them" or put together the proper package...don't fall for the bigger is better marketing campaigns, lol.

I doubt the blocks are the weak link with these engines, although if I were to build an engine from scratch, I'd opt for forged reciprocating parts (crank, rods, pistons) and not skimp on hardware or gaskets...Just put some quality parts and it'll last you the life of the car if you don't abuse it and keep it maintained.

Not real sure what was done to my engine bottom end (was like that when I bought it; I do know it's the stock block though), but it takes 24 psi all day long on 91 piss gasoline and no issues. However, it also has a large intercooler and the turbo is designed to be run on higher boosts and has the supporting "mods" to go with it. I wouldn't expect to push a small, stock turbo to high pressures and have it dead reliable; just not designed for it and you're going way past the effeciency zone...Even so, the block would be the last of my worries.

 

[turbojew]

Well im not even getting a built block anymore. Was dependant on a deal which fell through. I understand its not all about the block. you can spent 10k on a motor and itll be slow if you dont put the right things on it.

 

[turbojew]

Quoting JNR:
don't understand why people say these cars/engines are not reliable and can withstand a good amount of power w/o having to spend a lot of $$ on "names". Obviously we're not talking about full on race cars, but strong DD's.

The problem is when people hack these up and/or don't know what they're doing and as mentioned don't "tune them" or put together the proper package...don't fall for the bigger is better marketing campaigns, lol.

I doubt the blocks are the weak link with these engines, although if I were to build an engine from scratch, I'd opt for forged reciprocating parts (crank, rods, pistons) and not skimp on hardware or gaskets...Just put some quality parts and it'll last you the life of the car if you don't abuse it and keep it maintained.

Not real sure what was done to my engine bottom end (was like that when I bought it; I do know it's the stock block though), but it takes 24 psi all day long on 91 piss gasoline and no issues. However, it also has a large intercooler and the turbo is designed to be run on higher boosts and has the supporting "mods" to go with it. I wouldn't expect to push a small, stock turbo to high pressures and have it dead reliable; just not designed for it and you're going way past the effeciency zone...Even so, the block would be the last of my worries.



Im looking for a 300 hp Daily driver. im actually leaning towards t-3 TD06 19c on 15-20 lbs will DEFINITELY do the trick pushing a 3 inch exhaust I think 15 will do quite nicely.

 

[4thStroke]

Quoting turbojew:
Why spend 1000 dollars on a stock block when you can spend a lil more and grab a forged block and never have to worry again.



Because a stock block with stock clearances will last much, much longer than a forged block.

Do you want a block that could potentially last 100k+ miles or one that may only last 30k miles?

Most of the time, a built car loses a motor from something stupid. Broken vacuum line to AFPR, bad injector clip, ect, the list goes on. Unless you have all your sh*t in line, you can blow up a built motor just as easy as a stock motor.

Built motors are built to handle power, not for longevity, so unless you plan on building another forged motor in less than 50k miles, you are better off with a 1g rod/2g piston motor.

The lifespan of a built motor will greatly depend on how the motor is treated. If you want it to last a long time, don't beat on it and treat it well and you can get good life from it, but the chances are, a stock block will last significantly longer.

This is coming from a guy who daily drives a forged motor.

 

[turbowop]

Spencer is right on the money. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif

 

[turbojew]

Quoting 4thStroke:
Quoting turbojew:
Why spend 1000 dollars on a stock block when you can spend a lil more and grab a forged block and never have to worry again.



Because a stock block with stock clearances will last much, much longer than a forged block.

Do you want a block that could potentially last 100k+ miles or one that may only last 30k miles?

Most of the time, a built car loses a motor from something stupid. Broken vacuum line to AFPR, bad injector clip, ect, the list goes on. Unless you have all your sh*t in line, you can blow up a built motor just as easy as a stock motor.

Built motors are built to handle power, not for longevity, so unless you plan on building another forged motor in less than 50k miles, you are better off with a 1g rod/2g piston motor.

The lifespan of a built motor will greatly depend on how the motor is treated. If you want it to last a long time, don't beat on it and treat it well and you can get good life from it, but the chances are, a stock block will last significantly longer.

This is coming from a guy who daily drives a forged motor.



Hmmm its a whole new world compared to the 4g54! New Question....Can you make a 1g obd2 compatible? lol

 

[Jason G.]

Getting 300hp is stupid easy, but you're trying to reinvent the wheel here.

 

[Adorsey]

Look up Mike Rizz on youtube, the dude goes 9.xx on a stock block and t4z88hta. He said he shifted @ 10k with his stock block /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif And your goals were what? lol

 

[fuel]

10k rpms on a 4G54??

 

[turbowop]

No. It was a 4g63.

 

[fuel]

I must be confused because I thought jew was talking about a 2.6 Starquest.

 

[DynastyLCD]

Quoting brisvr4:
^^ +1 Mark. Mine was running 30+psi on a 50 trim for more than 2 years until I stepped up to a 6262 about 18 months ago. Since then it's been running 35psi or so EVERY time I take it out.
If you have a decent tune you will generally have far less issues. It's when people think that they know what they are doing but don't have a clue get hold of these cars that sh*t starts to happen!



better late than never.... im also part of the stock block 30+ psi club. im up to 33 psi on pump 93 with my 3052, and im using a stock bottom end with no balance shafts, plus ARP head studs and a mitsu MLS. a good tune is everything. my last stock bottom end lasted roughly 40k with 25-30 psi EVERY DAY. that motor had cracked ring lands in all 4 cylinders, i was running the VPC with the 660 chip since the day i put that motor in my car. later in my research, i found here that the 660 chip was designed for race fuel only, and adds way too much timing for pumpgas. the VPC was used up until the last 5k or so when V3 DSMlink was added.

now im on the engine that came from 73/1000... which sat for a LONG time with a spark plug out of the cylinder, and the car parked outside. between the grass clippings, rust on the plug threads and piston walls, and crap residing on top of the piston, i thought it would never run right. low and behold, were around 10k or so with this engine, 30+ psi EVERY DAY through my 3052. my tune is awesome, it sits at an 11.0 AFR and produces ZERO knock all the way to 8k.

Spencer was right about the forged engine lifespan... and after my experience and very good luck with the stock 6 bolt bottom end, i chose to push it as far as i could.

its beyond IGNORANT to believe that ANY forged motor will hold up forever. get that idea out of your head.

 

[4thStroke]

How much timing are you running at 5500RPM and what are you ramping up to? at 30+psi on 93oct, I'm assuming you can't get away with much timing. I'm running 13* out the top with my DSM76 (HTA 3052) at 26psi on 92oct.

 

[DynastyLCD]

Spencer, do you pick up knock over 13 degrees? what compression are you running?

im running a consistent 21 degrees of timing right now in boost (4k-8k) ive got a brand new knock sensor, if i push it to 22 it would pull timing. at 21, i dont get any knock retard. i used the Evo 8 GSR map and modified it to my liking.

im also on a 7.8:1 stock bottom end which helps with how high i can push the timing.

i should really get a good log at some point. its an animal considering its only on pump 93.

 

[turbowop]

Dang. That makes me wanna go to a different tuning setup. I'm running methanol injection to get 30psi to run clean with no knock. I don't have any real way to control timing though, other than the CAS. It's all programmed into my eprom chip and I'm using Maftpro as the piggy-back/speed density converter.

 

[DynastyLCD]

Mark, this is 1051 right? what are your AFRs? what injectors do you use?

going from VPC to V3 was the best thing i ever did. it took me a little while to get everything down, but if your car is setup right and you know how to tune well, you'll be so much happier. my setup is super simple too. V3 on speed density, stock block with ARPs/Mitsu MLS, HKS 272s, Magnus street SMIM, FP3052, 1200cc injectors, AFPR, 400 lph pump, short route FMIC. i feel like i can push this tune further too - im on my backup FMIC which is just the ETS street core (blown out welds on my slowboy race FMIC 3 different times)

it likes to spit up transmission parts, but i guess thats all just part of the fun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif

a local OG DSM'r once said to me: tuning is easy... "just turn up the boost, add timing, and pull fuel until it knocks" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[turbowop]

Yeah, 1051. We have almost identical setups. Stock block, ARP's, MLS gasket, Magnus SMIM, FP3052, HKS 272's, short route piped FMIC (though I have a 2-216), and AFPR. Only difference is I run 950cc injectors, a Wally 255hp pump, and the Maftpro instead of Link. It's been awhile since I did a full WOT pull through the gears and logged it at the same time. I think my AFR's were in the low 12's, but that's with methanol spraying. I'm actually starting to play with the car again, so we'll see if I decide to switch to Link this summer...maybe next. The power level and quick spool make it ideal for a fun street car, IMO. I'm glad I didn't go with the biggest turbo I could find. I've been really happy with the car in its current state.

 

[4thStroke]

Quoting DynastyLCD:
Spencer, do you pick up knock over 13 degrees? what compression are you running?

im running a consistent 21 degrees of timing right now in boost (4k-8k) ive got a brand new knock sensor, if i push it to 22 it would pull timing. at 21, i dont get any knock retard. i used the Evo 8 GSR map and modified it to my liking.

im also on a 7.8:1 stock bottom end which helps with how high i can push the timing.

i should really get a good log at some point. its an animal considering its only on pump 93.



If I tune for 14*, its hit or miss whether or not it knocks. I'm on a 9:1 motor. I'm using the Evo8 modified maps that I also tweaked.

Have you dynod? I'd be interested to know what it makes for power.

 

[DynastyLCD]

last winter, i made 396 at 26 or 27 psi, on the Evo 8 GSR map, unmodified. so really low amounts of timing. i forgot what it used to max out at, but it was pretty low. the place i went to was shady, and has since re-located. im not even positive if his dyno was calibrated correctly.

dyno coming this spring, i hope. id be really happy to break 450 AWHP on pump 93, and maybe even go 10.99 at the track this year /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif