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Re: Evo 8 cams?


ln2johnny
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 435766 posted 01/27/07 02:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
They were a regrind I had done. I was on a somewhat tight budget when I built the car so I opted to have the cams reground rather than spring for new ones. It was also the first 4cyl car that I actually did any tuning with, so I was experimenting quite a bit. Anyway, the specs (if I remember right, it's been over five years) were .415/.390 lift 274deg. duration 214/[email protected] Worked great for the track, or if I was just out on open roads messin' around, but in traffic I came to hate them.

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dsm_drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 435887 posted 01/27/07 10:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Stumbled on this cam info over at an EVO board. Thought it would be useful in our discussion. Looks like there are some slight differences in the EVO's intake and exhaust cams, but not much.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=123216

Does anybody have detailed specs like this for our stock cams?

Also, check out this thread about bleeding your lifters properly when you replace cams

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=137999


Edited by dsm_drew (01/27/07 10:35 PM)

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punisher
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 437186 posted 01/30/07 08:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've got a set! I'll post pics as soon as I take some. The intake and exhaust do look identical except for the cas slot. You can use the stock dsm cam gears, make a timing mark 11 teeth away counter clockwise. I'm still curious about the cas, the slot in the evo cam is a full 90' off, my cas simply doesn't have that much adjustment.

I am still curious about any power gains though. According to Brian Crower's website http://www.briancrower.com/ the stock evo cams have 248' duration, .386 lift intake and .367 lift exhaust. Stock dsm cams also have 248' duration but slightly less lift, .349 intake and .350 exhaust. Are there going to be noticable gains with an additional .037 and .017 lift?


On a side note while on BC's site I was looking at the n/t 4g63 cams. The intake has 256' duration and .365 lift on intake and .349 lift on exhaust. Sounds like a perfect fit right between the stock cams and aftermarket 264's. What are the possibilities of running 2 n/t 4g63 intake cams.



-Matt
1992 Talon Tsi awd - DD
1991 Eclipse GSX - project

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dsm_drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 437240 posted 01/30/07 10:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That's interesting that Brian Crower lists the duration as the same for both the EVO cams and the DSM cams. Every other source I've seen lists the EVO cams as 260 advertised duration.

*edit* I see what you mean now about the CAS...if the slot is offset from the original, when you install the CAS so that it fits, it will no longer be lined up at TDC. I'm sure there is an easy work around to this, maybe somebody who has done the install can enlighten us?


Edited by dsm_drew (01/31/07 12:56 PM)

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Myles
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 437400 posted 01/31/07 09:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Just got my cams yesterday. I don't know what I want to do yet. Is there anyone that has the evo 8 cams on their car right now? For some reason I feel like I'm ginny pigging it.



1929/2000 *SOLD*

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punisher
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 437488 posted 01/31/07 12:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      

With the cam lobes lined up, the cas is 90' off. The new cam gears just compensate for the alignment pin being 90' off. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned using parts from an Evo cas.

The clean ones are the Evo cam gears and the nasty dirty one came out of my old dsm. The dsm timing mark is where the ballpoint pen is, where it should be is where the pencil is, 11 teeth over counterclockwise. Its not quite a full 90' but its close.


Edited by punisher (01/31/07 12:39 PM)

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3Diamond
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 437523 posted 01/31/07 01:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well our CAS'es work on optical interrupt (with exception of blacktops), therefore it would be easy (theoretically) to just open the cas up and offset the optical plate by 90 degrees (or imaging sensors themselves). Or just grab a piece of metal, cut to size of old one and drill new holes?!



Stupidity should be Painful ! http://dsmetc.com/forum/images/smilies/rant.gif

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dsm_drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 437659 posted 01/31/07 04:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
There should be a "bolt on" solution to this, shouldn't need to open and modify the CAS. Would like to hear from the couple people in this thread who have done the swap. I don't have a cylinder head and CAS handy to try this, but what if you turned the CAS upside down? Would there be enough adjustment room then to align both the CAS and the cams at TDC? Personally, I'd cut a slot in the end of the EVO intake cam before I'd try modifying the CAS itself. Wouldn't be as easily "bolt on" as first appeared, but wouldn't be very difficult.

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TrendSetter
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 437888 posted 02/01/07 05:55 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i thought a few people said they actually did this

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3Diamond
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 438129 posted 02/01/07 01:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes; but flipping it solves nothing, that way it would be 90 deg off from the other side; and cutting cams isnt ones idea of fun, escpecially when you consider the hardness of metal; precision required... CAS'es are cheap enough to afford one screw-up, and even then, unless youve destroyed the sensor cradle; they might be recovered. You might want to ask around, but as someone mentioned, i believe that a couple of people have gone via this route.



Stupidity should be Painful ! http://dsmetc.com/forum/images/smilies/rant.gif

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thadirtybird
Copter Mechanic
48/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 438356 posted 02/01/07 08:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
working on getting a set myself, good pics punisher. they really helped out as far actually see the difference in the alignment marks i would like for one of the people who said that they had done this mod to help point others in the right direction for " CORRECTLY " installing these into our cars with all the parts and info to back it up, because the last thing someone would want to be is the ginny pig and ruin a good running motor in the process. just my .02 thanks -robert-



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BMW M3 SMG Dinan Stage 4

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toybreaker Galant VR4.org Moderator
it's peace of mind at 100 mph plus
1990/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 438393 posted 02/01/07 09:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've been drinking, so forgive me if this is totally assbackwards....

Can't you just rotate the firing order 90* instead?

Move the plug wires and injector clips one cylinder earlier in the firing order (or later )

The cams will still have the same timing, and the ecu will still think it's firing #1...but it's actually firing #3 (or #2 )...

And you could just check the ignition timing...using the new #1 for the signal.

???

I believe I'll have another beer...



the bitterness of low quality remains long after the temporary joy of a low price has faded

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dsm_drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 438417 posted 02/01/07 11:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That would probably work too, but still not ideal since you would have to remember how the plug wires and injectors and CAS were switched around the next time you needed to work on it. I know of a few people who could machine the proper slot in the EVO intake cam if it comes to that. Wouldn't require that much precision, as long as it points the correct way and is centered you'd be fine, but again, not ideal. I too want to hear from the people who said they'd done this install. I'm not giving up yet, and there are several ways to make it work, but may not be as easy a "bolt on" install as it first seemed. Somebody show us what we're missing!

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TrendSetter
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 438458 posted 02/02/07 06:21 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
also according to the link posted on the top of pg3, the intake and ex cams are in fact different on the evo. so swapping might not be the greatest idea.

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dsm_drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 438834 posted 02/02/07 08:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
They are slightly different, but not by much. Not like its going to choke the motor.

Just got a pair of cams myself so maybe this weekend I'll have the opportunity to pull my head off the shelf in the garage and take a look at this. Like I said before, if no bolt on solution can be found I'll just have the intake cam slotted and be done with it. Still only like an $80 outlay for a little upgrade in cam specs, but may not be worth the trouble for most. But hey, if you never try anything, you won't learn anything.

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Rausch Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 440073 posted 02/06/07 01:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
ok, so whats the official verdict on this deal here??? the more i read, the more confused i get. i have seen bolt on and go, no way it'll work, and a whole lot in between. the CAS portion of the subject makes sense. unless i am missing something, but other than that, WTF? can we get a difinitive answer here. if it has already been done, where are the people that said they did it? could someone in the know just buck up and lay it out here? either it works, or it doesn't, little modification to make it work, fine, just someone please clearly state the facts....



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dsm_drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 440437 posted 02/06/07 08:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
We've been discussing the CAS fitment for a week and still no reply from the people who said they have installed these before?

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TrendSetter
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 440534 posted 02/07/07 06:04 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
they were probably lying

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JSchleim18
Minor 69er
1157/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 440537 posted 02/07/07 06:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
All i know is that i have a set of Evo Cams and Cam Gears i'm lookin to let go of (in the MISC. F/S Section)...so if anyone is interested PM me



-Jeremy
A88 Summit White - CD (No Sunroof)

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TrendSetter
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 440552 posted 02/07/07 06:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
how come you decided not to use them in your galant?


Edited by TrendSetter (02/07/07 06:52 AM)

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JSchleim18
Minor 69er
1157/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 440600 posted 02/07/07 08:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I need the money more than anything...I was really gonna put them in to test the waters to see if it is true that they work but i blew my turbo and i am using all the money to buy my new setup...if i don't sell them for what i am looking for then i will just keep them and test them out. also my internals i believe are pretty good so i don't wanna open it up yet until i need to rebuild her (rather just get everything done in one shot)



-Jeremy
A88 Summit White - CD (No Sunroof)

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TrendSetter
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 440603 posted 02/07/07 08:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
a cam swap on a dohc motor isnt really opening anything up.
its too bad you couldnt put them in, lots of people are curious about the real world validity of this swap.

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JSchleim18
Minor 69er
1157/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 440605 posted 02/07/07 08:55 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yeah i know i'm kinda hungry to find out as well...only because they are lighter and should increase midrange power and spool up...i think they would be a great cheap upgrade for someone looking to improve their powerband.



-Jeremy
A88 Summit White - CD (No Sunroof)

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thesoccadude
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 443601 posted 02/13/07 07:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
did anyone ever install these cams? i think a lot of people are waiting to see if it will actually work without any complications.

dan

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locolito2000
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 443607 posted 02/13/07 07:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I was under the impression the v8sareslo had done it many times, hopefully he will chime in here soon. And then again I could be just wrong.

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