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Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps


MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1149834 posted 11/24/13 07:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So today I took my car out for a drive, Doing a few WOT pulls and what not. I noticed that my WB gauge was reading at like 13.5 while I was getting on it, Granted that today was about 25 degrees outside with the windchill even colder, Could this cause the car the lean out cause its so cold out? Didn't hit knock at all or anything like that. Just wondering if this is normal in colder weather.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

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AnotherNewb
flutterdumper


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1149848 posted 11/24/13 09:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Cold air = denser air thats why it seems like your car runs better when its cold out because its getting 'more' air. Depending on your tuning set up and a working O2 sensor, your ECU should compensate with its short term and long term fuel trims, just gotta drive it a little bit so it can learn.



Every terrorist killed is a victory for Wookalar

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1149849 posted 11/24/13 09:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah she's liking the cold air alright



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

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4thStroke
Spence knows tools
786/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150104 posted 11/27/13 12:31 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Fuels trims dont affect AFR under open loop.

Depending on the tuning system and what you are using to compensate for air temperature, your air temperature compensation may not be working correctly.

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bmxr152
Member
975/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150230 posted 11/28/13 10:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Also if your running a 180 t stat it might not get over 190 which is learning mode i know here it has been.in the 20s in ther morn ing and i have been running really lean until i adjusted my coolant offset on dsmlink. My coolant temps were 175/180. So i can say yes it could possibly happen. It stumped me for a while. Fuel pressure was good. Injectors good. Everything except i would just lean out under light to medium load.



92 GVR4 #975-1000
90 Rs-t Gt32 powered, fully built

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1151071 posted 12/05/13 03:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting MellowVR4:

So today I took my car out for a drive, Doing a few WOT pulls and what not. I noticed that my WB gauge was reading at like 13.5 while I was getting on it, Granted that today was about 25 degrees outside with the windchill even colder, Could this cause the car the lean out cause its so cold out? Didn't hit knock at all or anything like that. Just wondering if this is normal in colder weather.




If I am not mistaken, usually aren't WOT pulls closed loop (or open loop I always confuse the two) meaning that the settings that are dialed in are the settings that are dialed in, unless your tuning software receives input from an IAT?

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1151089 posted 12/05/13 04:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think its at open loop, not sure either tho.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (108.162.238.53) | Report this post to a Moderator

diambo4life
Member
476/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1151243 posted 12/06/13 10:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
"Closed" ECU depends on O2 sensor feedback to control AFR. Open - ECU looks at predefined maps for load/rpm. So when you are at WOT, you are in open loop although when I used to have dsmlink V2.5, I ran my Talon in forced open loop. This helped me sort of force the ECU to run the car leaner (where it normally uses O2 sensor feedback) nd my gas mileage especially on E85 was greatly improved. Another reason your car could run leaner in much cooler AITs is colder air = more airflow per unit time and if your fuel pump or fuel system can not handle the airflow (if you were already at it's limit) the vehicle will run leaner.



1990 GSX: New project..
1991 Belize Green GVR4 #476/2000: 710WHP/501TQ (dynojet)in 2014, Street trim, 3400lbs! [email protected] (wastegate)
91 Talon: [email protected] (quickest) [email protected] (fastest) 3200lbs, 17" street tires in 2009 (sold.)

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172542 posted 05/19/14 10:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Bringing this one back because I have a few questions.

First: Would not enough voltage feeding the wideband make the reading inaccurate?

second: Would a miscalibrated sensor show a 13.5 at WOT with out any knock?

Reason why I'm asking these questions is because I've been DD my galant and have noticed this going on with my WB. Originally When I got tuned Running the big 16g everything was fine and the wideband would read 11.5 AT WOT at about 17/22 psi with 750cc's. Now that I have 1000cc with a 60trim at about 17-18psi Im getting 13.5 at WOT??? I have to confess that When I switched to this turbo in I didn't take my wideband off to recalibrate it. Do I have to? As far as I know Im still not getting knock, I have not logged anything but I will probably later today. Any help would be great! Thank you.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (199.96.227.1) | Report this post to a Moderator

ghostinthevr4
Likes Poetry
186/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172545 posted 05/19/14 11:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
To put it simply it sounds like you need to retune it. If your wideband is the type that does free air calibration then it wouldn't hurt to do it.



I found the anti-lag.

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172546 posted 05/19/14 11:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I was afraid of that. Do you think when I add meth 50/50 to the mix I could get the 11.5 without a tune? not trying to cheap out but



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (199.96.227.1) | Report this post to a Moderator

ghostinthevr4
Likes Poetry
186/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172553 posted 05/19/14 12:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm not sure I don't use meth, anytime you change your injectors a retune is most likely in order not only that you changed to a bigger turbo. You know the turbo is flowing more than your 16g because it's running leaner with bigger injectors, your probably gonna have to add more fuel.

What are you tuning with?



I found the anti-lag.

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172554 posted 05/19/14 12:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
V3 Lite



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (199.96.227.1) | Report this post to a Moderator

ghostinthevr4
Likes Poetry
186/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172558 posted 05/19/14 12:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Should be no problem to dial in then.



I found the anti-lag.

Posts: 584 | From: Fresno, Califonia | Member Since: 06/11/08 | IP: (166.137.210.46) | Report this post to a Moderator

MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172559 posted 05/19/14 12:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Im gonna try and do this my self, Don't wanna cough up 450 for a retune .

Going to try to recalibrate it first, if that doesn't work then Ill try and add more fuel on link. Im gona SOUND stupid but I don't know how to add fuel lol, Have to read those wiki things again.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (199.96.227.1) | Report this post to a Moderator

ghostinthevr4
Likes Poetry
186/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172561 posted 05/19/14 12:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Don't beat yourself up, read it till your eyes bleed and take small steps. Make small fuel changes and see if the AFR's respond the way you want them to, it might take some time but eventually you'll get it.



I found the anti-lag.

Posts: 584 | From: Fresno, Califonia | Member Since: 06/11/08 | IP: (166.137.210.33) | Report this post to a Moderator

MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172564 posted 05/19/14 01:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yea man, I just get weird when I get to the tuning part. don't know if im doing it right or not I know I can get used to it, but just have to read read and READ...



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (199.96.227.1) | Report this post to a Moderator

turbowop
Hard Snarker
1051/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172568 posted 05/19/14 02:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What type of air metering are you using?



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172572 posted 05/19/14 02:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Just a 2g maf.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (199.96.227.1) | Report this post to a Moderator

MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172631 posted 05/19/14 09:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So, When I wanna add fuel do I just go to the fuel settings and add % on the RPM'S which im running lean on? That would be the obvious I think



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (184.58.248.211) | Report this post to a Moderator

diambo4life
Member
476/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172705 posted 05/20/14 08:03 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes. Wish we could view the log. It could be a fuel restriction problem too.



1990 GSX: New project..
1991 Belize Green GVR4 #476/2000: 710WHP/501TQ (dynojet)in 2014, Street trim, 3400lbs! [email protected] (wastegate)
91 Talon: [email protected] (quickest) [email protected] (fastest) 3200lbs, 17" street tires in 2009 (sold.)

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172707 posted 05/20/14 08:09 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ill try and upload it tonight.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (199.96.227.1) | Report this post to a Moderator

MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172708 posted 05/20/14 08:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
seems like im getting like 2.0 degrees of knock at lower rpm's. I think I just need to lower timing in those areas.
I can do this in the timing tables while the car is off but in the on position, and go to the direct access while the car is running?

Also when I did a slight pull, my WB read 13.0 but link read 11.5? not sure what to believe.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(


Edited by MellowVR4 (05/20/14 08:21 AM)

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ghostinthevr4
Likes Poetry
186/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172726 posted 05/20/14 11:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting MellowVR4:

So, When I wanna add fuel do I just go to the fuel settings and add % on the RPM'S which im running lean on? That would be the obvious I think




You could add fuel by changing the appropriate hertz sliders or you can add fuel by using the fuel sliders. You should really focus on one problem at a time, I don't know what your timing looks like but if you load up 2g maps you should be fine load the octane and timing tables. You can also lower your boost to see if the knock with go away so you don't have to mess with the tune. What wideband are you using and how old is it!

It sounds like your wide band is going bad that would be your 1st problem to fix in my book. No more WOT pulls until you figure it out, I have an AEM wideband and the symptoms your describing is the exact thing my wideband was doing.

I purchased a new wideband and it fixed the problem the car runs ten times better, for what it's worth I'm using narrow band simulation with my wideband.

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172762 posted 05/20/14 06:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Im using the innovative mtxL I think? its going on 2yrs old now.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1637 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (184.58.248.211) | Report this post to a Moderator


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