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Newb questions on 255 install from old fart


PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246657 posted 07/22/19 10:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I hate asking these basic questions but I'm going to remove a seized 190 pump and replace with a 255 pump.

I reviewed the VFAQ for 1G Walbro installation so that's good. Any additional GVR4 hints at what I will need?

I have not opened up the tank yet, though all nuts are loosened.

-Should the 190 and 255 pumps be exactly the same configuration, should they be plug and play?
-Is there anything I can do for the level sensor to ensure it is working optimally while this is open? (its been too long I don't recall if the gauge works accurately or not)
-Any tips/tricks? I ordered a new gasket for the lid.
-I was going to leave my FP regulator where it is currently, then adjust once I see where the idle pressure is at. To set idle pressure, Galant is 37psi, but is that with or without the vaccuum to the regulator?


Thanks and sorry for such a beginner question. It's been too long since I've even thought about my GVR4.

Soon I will be asking very basic tuning questions, but I need to get it up and running first!

-PJ



#490/1000


Edited by PJGross (07/22/19 10:58 AM)

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gvr4ever
Forever Member
347/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246658 posted 07/22/19 10:57 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My gauge will read full, eventually, but it takes too long. I suspect it is likely the float is worn. I do believe the 190 and 255 are hooked up the same way.

Safety tip: It's really obvious, but I've known folks to skip this step. Unplug the battery.

If you already got all the bolts loose, your almost done.



1992 Nile black w/sunroof
15xK miles. 2nd owner since 1998

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246675 posted 07/24/19 08:33 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
New filter sock, gasket, and 10micron filter all came in while I was on a work trip.
I'm a bit antsy but will likely wait until the weekend to install.
I am going to leave the gauge sender alone and just see what it does before messing with it.

Fingers crossed,
PJ



#490/1000

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transparentdsm
I have to say something dumb Member
138/2000


152/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246678 posted 07/24/19 11:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'll see if I can find one of my hangers, but its a sweeping sensor that moves along copper, I think, and sometimes it builds up a green corrosion and causes the sender to not read or read incorrectly. I use a nylon brush, like a cheapo harbor freight one, to clean it up and then hit it with a little carb cleaner.

On another note the position of the float arm is equally important, if the arm is bent it will throw off readings dramatically.

I have seen and found these arms bent many times in cars from people swapping out fuel pumps and just jamming the hanger back into the tank not realizing the float needs to be put in first.



138/2000
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iceman69510 Galant VR4.org Moderator
Turn Right Racing
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246679 posted 07/24/19 12:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Good to see your progress.



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
92 VR4 828 Belize Green-SOLD
91 VR4 115 Nile Black -SOLD

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246681 posted 07/24/19 01:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
255 pump in!

I had to cut the rubber bottom spacer in half to get a snug but not too tight fit in the bracket. Not sure if that is normal or not? On top it goes white spacer, then oring, then the spacer/keeper thing which on mine was black but the old vfaq showed white. Everything seemed to go in and seat just fine up top.

Tested it to purge the lines and that 255 is pretty loud! It took me a bit to figure out that the new gasket guide nibs need to be pulled through their holes before the gasket snugs up. I didn't expect that and was stumped for a minute.

Anyway, it fired right up, purrs like a kitten. I wouldn't guess it hasn't run in years. Now to my tuning thread under general!

-PJ



#490/1000

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246682 posted 07/24/19 01:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Oh, 5 gallons is registering about 3/8 of a tank. I forgot how much a tank holds? I will note it.

-PJ



#490/1000

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246684 posted 07/24/19 02:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well, fuel pump is really loud. I think it got louder in the 2 mile test drive I did.

Plus, at idle now the fuel pump relay will click closed and engine stalls.
Turn key off, turn back and it starts right up.

Don't tell me bad ECU. This ECU is a recapped one from 2007 or so from Keydiver.

-PJ



#490/1000

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
JDM Unit
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246687 posted 07/24/19 06:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You need to re-wire the pump for more voltage and give it a better ground while you are in there, also I would have used a supra pump instead. Super quiet. I have a new one if you need it.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246690 posted 07/24/19 07:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had the 255 on the shelf new for 10 yrs. I put in what I had.
I will review the whole re-wire thing. Battery in trunk so a relay off the stock harness direct from trunk battery should be very quick. Not sure its necessary, though. I really think if I didn't lock up the 190 it would have been still fine for 660s and <20psi.

How much do supra pumps go for and do they drop in the same spot or do they require a cage modification?

-PJ



#490/1000

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
1051/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246691 posted 07/24/19 07:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My last Supra pump that I had in 503 died out of nowhere. I've had a 255HP in 1051 for years and it's been great. I've never actually re-wired it even. No issues.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
JDM Unit
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246693 posted 07/24/19 09:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I mention the re-wire because the wires and connections are probably old/corroded. I bet the ground on top of the fuel pump hanger is little to non-existent. Have seen many high volume pumps suffer because they are not getting the volts they need, especially under boost, because of corrosion and old connections. Not to mention the thin gauge power wire that mitsu used. I think I paid $136 for it. You can have it for $77.00. It's so quiet, you won't hear it. Yes they bolt right in.

On the left is the stock usdm pump and assembly. On the right is the stock jdm evo spec pump and assembly. That larger pump has identical dimensions as the supra pump. You just have to cut the end of the metal inlet tube off and use a piece of rubber hose just like mitsu does. The rubber hose comes in the install kit with the pump.





www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp


Edited by G (07/24/19 09:16 PM)

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iceman69510 Galant VR4.org Moderator
Turn Right Racing
855/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246702 posted 07/25/19 09:00 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting PJGross:

Well, fuel pump is really loud. I think it got louder in the 2 mile test drive I did.

Plus, at idle now the fuel pump relay will click closed and engine stalls.
Turn key off, turn back and it starts right up.

Don't tell me bad ECU. This ECU is a recapped one from 2007 or so from Keydiver.

-PJ




I posted in your other thread about this.

I may have an Evo 9 pump around here if you want/need it. Did your 255 feature the full foam cover for the pump (used to quiet them)?



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
92 VR4 828 Belize Green-SOLD
91 VR4 115 Nile Black -SOLD

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246705 posted 07/25/19 09:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes, my 255 has the full foam. I was also able to put about 1/2 of the bottom damper thickness on between the pump and bracket bottom so it is not touching plastic to metal on the bottom either.

It was a "normal" volume when I tested it and at start up.
It got very loud after 2 miles or so of driving around the neighborhood.

I didn't see any crap in the bottom of the tank or when I drained from the plug, but I guess I can pull it and make sure the filter sock is still ok.
The + / - locations in tank were clean and corrosion free.

The top is rusty, so I will check and clean the connections there. But the wires seem to be nice and soft and the connection is clean and dry at the stock connector.

The odd thing was that at first it was just fine then got loud. Started it up last night and still loud. Some people have said theirs came and went.

I will pull the assembly and look at the sock. I will also check the fuel filter up front. I think I had a 10u filter up front before. but the old one has textile ribs and the new 10u is metal only so maybe its plugged with junk at tank bottom and restricted.

Good news is it is very easy to check.

-PJ



#490/1000

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246724 posted 07/26/19 09:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Pulled sender. I gambled and lost. When I poured 5 gal of fuel in everything looked clear and clean.
After a few miles of driving, pump got to whining, then the fuel pump relay clicked off. Those might not be related, but.....
Pulled sender and new filter sock filled with rust mud and the fuel is red soup.

Ordered a POR 15 tank restoration kit. This will never happen again to #490! Also ordered a new filter sock, again. I think I will keep the 255 in there.

The ground on the sender looks pretty dang good. I will clean it up but the car spent the last 15 years in a garage so it doesnít have too many miles on it.

Tips for dropping fuel tank? Anyone know how many nuts/bolts off hand? On its own wheels for less than a week and now will be jsb again!!!

I think I will send in the ecu to check the capacitors while I have time I guess. Better safe than dead on the side of the road.

Damn it just got a shiny new plate today too!

PJ



#490/1000

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transparentdsm
I have to say something dumb Member
138/2000


152/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246727 posted 07/27/19 10:40 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Fuel tank is an easy drop, I think it's like 6-8 nuts, plus the fuel filler and breather hose and all the lines for the sending unit. Last time I did one it took like an hour, for removal and install, with no fuel in the tank.



138/2000
152/1000

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246728 posted 07/27/19 11:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Tank out. Ran rust dissolver in it. Have a POR kit on order but it looks pretty good with just the rust remover run through it and rinsed. I will still do the kit, but seeing how the remover coats the tank, Iím not sure I will get 100% coverage with the POR kit.....
Hmm..... decisions......



#490/1000

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transparentdsm
I have to say something dumb Member
138/2000


152/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246731 posted 07/27/19 11:33 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
if you have it out and have the time to wait, por kit it. you already ordered it. tank out is a pretty easy job huh? glad your getting her together and working out the kinks as you go.



138/2000
152/1000

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246735 posted 07/27/19 02:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Would have been easier if I drained the 5 gal of gas, but I wanted to slosh it around before dumping. Nuts were not rusted at all.

I used a small POR kit to paint the outside of the tank while waiting for the tank kit. Top is done, tomorrow Iíll hit the heat shields. Bottom of tank seems to have an undercoat or something on it so will not do the bottom.

Canít wait to get this thing back together. Need to pull the ECU and send it for an inspection. I donít think the fuel pump working too hard would pop the fuel pump relay, would it? I think the two are separate issues.

PJ



#490/1000

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mooserage
New Title
254/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246742 posted 07/28/19 08:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Way to make quick work of the tank! Sorry if I missed it earlier, but I'd make sure all your electrical pump connections are good, rust free, and dry. One of things that happened on my car was a relay being mounted too low. First it cut out when something in the trunk rolled into it and pulled the signal wire off. later I found it was also rusted and caused some poor fuel pump operation. I replaced everything and mounted it higher up with the right amount of wire so it doesn't get pulled off.



-254/2000 Summit White DD (aka "The Yeti")

The Yeti loves winter and hates me.

-ムースライジュ

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246747 posted 07/29/19 08:28 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Wiring to/around tank is pretty good. Car has sat in garage now most of its life.

However, I just ordered a relay and will rewire the fuel pump harness while everything is apart. I will just go into the car side wire harness, I am not going to re-wire all the way to the pump. This should remove any voltage drop from front to back of the car at least. I also made a mount plate for the new redtop optima and will have a 150A breaker at the battery, too.

Not sure where I'm putting the relay yet. I did order one that has a waterproof plug as part of it with the wire leads coming off. This should help keep it clean.


Getting this thing up and running is becoming a bigger project than I initially thought it would be.

There really isn't much left that is not new/refreshed after this so I should be able to move on to tuning fairly quick after this week.


-PJ



#490/1000

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246748 posted 07/29/19 08:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Old fuel pump was not a 190 btw. It actually was a 150lph pump. Just searched by the part # on it.

-PJ



#490/1000

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slugsgomoo
god hates stupid people
461/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246789 posted 08/01/19 11:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
late to the party, but the rewire should actually quiet a 255 down a bit in my experience.

Aside from that I also had a supra pump die out of nowhere (I replaced it with a wally 450).



-andrew
{witty signature}
#461 Kensington Grey - 2.0L/T67/etc
2015 Triumph Tiger 800 XCx
2014 Ford Focus ST

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1246810 posted 08/04/19 08:12 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I bought a waterproof relay, completed the fuel tank POR treatment, rewired the relay to the harness, completed a mount plate to the trunk, secured the red top optima, added a 150A breaker, put all back together and the pump is so quiet you can barely hear it.

Now it idles great prior to driving, after driving for a while, clutch in to a stop it wonít hold rpm and stalls. Also idle searches a bit unless I tap the gas and get it to settle. No crazy up and downs though.

O2s donít appear to cycle at idle, gauge just sits lean.

So, mechanically all set. Now I have to tune.

I will start a thread in general for tuning.

Thanks for help on the pump/tank issue. This is now properly fixed!
PJ



#490/1000

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