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data logger plus gps


Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 338683 posted 05/14/06 12:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Are any of you guys running a palm data logger with gps? I used to have a laptop with the tmo software and gps streets and trips, and loved it. But now I need something new. I am thinking about getting a palm for price and convenience. I am not sure what is good and what is compatible. I would like any input you guys have.

thanks

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Hertz Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 338984 posted 05/15/06 12:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've been shopping for an m505 or m515 with either Navman or Magellan GPS Companion. I'm not sure if it will be possible to have the logger and the GPS connected at the same time, because the GPS usually clips to the port on the Palm. I think (maybe) the Magellan might have a pass-through, but I haven't seen any decent pics of it.

Ideally, I'd have GPS+Logger+plus charging.

I am getting the impression that the Magellan requires some work, like you have to pre-program your route before using? The NavMan sounds like it is more "navigation" related. Another issue is RAM, some maps need a lot of memory, so an m130 is out of the question (only on-board RAM). SD cards are cheap these days, so I think a huge SD card with maps on it + the FSM on PDF would be killer.



Ryan Hertz

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339031 posted 05/15/06 01:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Agreed.

I have been looking into the "Garmin iQue 3600 GPS". It looks like the right thing for gps. But it is so new I have no idea if it will log. I would hate to spend $250 on this and have it not work.

Also, a few of the clip on nav systems have power cords that powers both the palm and the nav. But it would take some very clever hacking to get the logger to work as well.

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339052 posted 05/15/06 03:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Anyone know how to tell if the serial on a palm will or will not work? Is it a specific model thing or is it all the new ones after a certain year?

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Hertz Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339060 posted 05/15/06 03:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
First off, I'm pretty sure that no Palm OS 5.0+ devices will work. (No serial support) That puts the iQue out.



Ryan Hertz

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339061 posted 05/15/06 03:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
it's depends on specific model, some of them have bad serial ports, some of them uses the low level 3.3V CMOS, some have built-in RS232 port, so it all depends on model.

on the GPS note, you can always use a bluetooth GPS and add a bluetooth card on the plam if it's not built-in already. but if your palm is too old to add a bluetooth card on, then sorry, u are pretty much out of luck, u can always use a splitter, using either GPS or logging, but not both. or simply get a new palm, it's cheap on ebay



huh?

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339063 posted 05/15/06 03:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The iQUE has a "Serial - 9 pin D-shell (RS-232/EIA 574)" listed as one of its specs. But the OS doesn't support it? I hate when technology is "smarter".

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Hertz Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339078 posted 05/15/06 04:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Something like this?
http://www.gpskabel.de/info/cradlemode.htm

It seems as though a lot of these USB Palms can be wired for Serial, the question then comes down to the Palm itself.



Ryan Hertz

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339088 posted 05/15/06 04:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
maybe it does!



Ryan Hertz

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339095 posted 05/15/06 05:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well, I just got one off of ebay.

I hope it works. At least the gps will.

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s_firestone
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339148 posted 05/15/06 07:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I don't see why it wouldn't. The limitation would likely be that the Palm does not technically multitask. As for the cradle trick. That is based upon an either/or arrangement via switch which changes a resistance value to one of the pins on the Palm used to set the connection type. Look at the pin for device selection.

Palm universal connector pinout and explanation

PDA GPS info

If you search the web for the the pinouts for a particular you can find out whether it has true serial support. The quasi-USB serial version (as opposed to discreet 'Serial' and 'USB') is still lacking a working driver that will work with any logger.

There are a couple of work-arounds for the serial PDAs that only put out 3.3v. The basic premise is that the signal needs to be buffered to return to proper levels. Its hit-or-miss though due to the massive variations in implementation. The whole point of RS-232c was for it to be universal, however manufacturers rarely put attention to detail.

This is going to become more of a problem as we diverge from the original PDA logger codebase written in PalmOS, as well as the original RS-232c protocol.

It really needs to be re-written for a good vanilla piece of hardware that allows full serial emulation even via USB. I think Win CE and PocketPC are all somewhat neutered in the availability of programming. Add that to all the PDA/phones that are lacking in proper and complete hardware implementation or documented driver suites.

The IBM PC standard evolved because of this exact same problem. As did Windows(although that is no longer true by definition of its anti-portability). Here we are 25 years later in the exact same boat, only with PDAs.

Lets look at a parallel in OS vs. the same one that occurred with proprietary PCs. Linux evolved out of the disparity of massive "We own your soul", mentality of Microsoft.

Now Linux is rising to free us from that. You just need libraries for compiling the hardware. Linux is compilable for just about any hardware imaginable.

On the forefront affecting both hardware and software is an ideology called virtualization. The emulation of all things hardware/software. Want an idea of a real world use for virtualization?

Multi Arcade Machine Emulator This program allows you to run every coin-op video game machine ever built. Using copies pf the original ROM firmware images(which are of course illegal to possess unless you own the cabinet). You even have to hit keys to insert the quarters. It will compile on almost any computer platform imaginable. It supports a myriad of input devices (trackballs, joysticks, spinners).

We don't need another PocketPC, we need a PC in the size of a PDA. Not a cut down, skimped on, wannabe PC. a full fledged PC with all the trimmings. It doesn't have to be extremely fast, just complete.

Stephen Firestone
1992 Galant VR-4 #1110010110 of 1111101000 (in Binary)


Edited by s_firestone (05/15/06 08:56 PM)

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Hertz Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339396 posted 05/16/06 10:57 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ah, awesome Paul. I'm bidding on a 3200, figured I'd try to save a few bucks.

Maybe I should wait and see if you have any luck.

--

Stephen: AWESOME links and information, thank you!



Ryan Hertz


Edited by Hertz (05/16/06 11:11 AM)

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Josh Weaver
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339514 posted 05/16/06 03:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think I posted that link to the cradle mod awhile ago!!! I've done this and i currently have an m515 logging and charging. (the PDA's battery no longer holds a charge so I have to have the charging, MMCD lies on the memory card). GPS would be nice but, at least for me, it will have to be a separate device. I really like Pioneers in-dash system if it weren't for teh $2000 price tag. I'm waiting for a portable device that can recieve the XM NavTraffic signal. The pioneer can pick up traffic info from XM and automatically direct you around and help you avoid the stop and go. Pretty cool. They just need that in a portable for multiple vehicle applications.

-Josh

PS. When I get my car back up to PA, I'll take some pics of my logger setup. I modified the cradle to provide logging and charging. I then removed the stabalizing wait from teh cradle, ran the wires out the bottom of the cradle instead of the back and bolted the wires to the driver's side speaker grill. The wires go through the grill and around the speaker to get to the ECU and power. The angle is great for my tall self to read while driving. I haven't had it fly off on a launch yet either, I'm guessing the angle helps with that too.

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s_firestone
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339567 posted 05/16/06 06:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ditto. Right now I'm using the palm serial cradle for the M505. This is the universal cradle that comes in either USB or Serial that you can wire for both. The nice thing is that you can just adapt a 12V source right into the end of the plug at the serial connector. I'm going to hack the cradle up so I can mount it in a more suitable location and add the rear clips that Palm didn't include. I have managed to make mine go flying once or twice.








Stephen Firestone
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Hertz Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339858 posted 05/17/06 10:23 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hotness!



Ryan Hertz

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Fitch
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 339966 posted 05/17/06 01:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I use a Handspring Platinum for datalogging, and a Magellan "somethingorother" Springboard module. It plugs into the top/back, ala gameboys, and leaves the Hotsync port free to datalog. I can only view one program at a time, and it doesn't like to run both at once, but it's easy to switch back and forth via hotkeys. Besides, you shouldn't be tuning when you're lost.

You could probably find the both those units on the net or ebay for ~$60. The Platinum's color screen is nice for the gps, and it has a much better backlight IMHO for night viewing. It does have a rechargable battery though, so you can't just toss in a fresh set of cells when it gets low. And the Magellan has it's on set of AAA's.

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 340940 posted 05/19/06 04:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My iQue 3600 came in today. The thing looks SWEET!
Here are some helpful palm websites:
Palm links. (some of this info is in the link s_firestone posted above)

From those I concluded that I can get the serial sync cable (on order ). The resistance between pins 7 and 8 will probably be 7.5K ohms. For an RS-232 peripheral it should be 100K ohms and for a modem it should be 220K ohms. I'm not sure which one I need. Anyone know?
FYI, a short is USB.

So I'll mod that as needed. I'll go with the 100K unless someone tells me other wise. I also bought about $10 worth of components to piece together a voltage regulator to get the 5 volts the palm wants to see. I'll just cut off the power connector on the sync cable and hard wire in the proper voltage.

I have a funny feeling, this seems like it will all work out but will probably screw me in the end.


Edited by Paul Mc369 (05/19/06 04:43 PM)

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s_firestone
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 340970 posted 05/19/06 06:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think its going to work out. Definitely keep us posted.



Stephen Firestone
1992 GVR4 #918 of 1K

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Hertz Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 341527 posted 05/21/06 11:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If you figure it out, let me know how to order a cable from you.



Ryan Hertz

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 345108 posted 06/01/06 11:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The cable showed up. The resistor is a 7.5k. My guess is it won't work, but I lost my rj11-db9 adapter (see other thread) so I can't test it.

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 349298 posted 06/13/06 05:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I finally got the adapter installed. ECU communication error. Now I need to figure out how to swap the surface mount 7.5k resistor with a 100k one.

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s_firestone
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 349315 posted 06/13/06 06:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You'll have to desolder the 7.5, or add a 100K in series. Solder a 1/8 watt 100K resistor in its place, don't worry about needing a surface mount, resistance is resistance. Or add a switch with 7.5K on one pole and the 100K on the other.



Stephen Firestone
1992 GVR4 #918 of 1K

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 349319 posted 06/13/06 06:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ya, the electronics doesn't scare me too much. It is the physical connections. There is very little room and, from what I can tell, I'll need to just rest the resistor leads on top of the board and solder it that way.

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 350051 posted 06/15/06 03:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
OK, I have no experience with this. I have tried both the 7.5k resistor and the 100k resistor. With the car off I get a "serial comm error". With the car on I get a "ecu comm error". I don't even know what I should be checking to trouble shoot this.

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 350092 posted 06/15/06 05:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Is it possible I screwed up the rx tx...hhmmm

Is this the same kind of error when swapping from a pc connection to a palm?


Edited by Paul Mc369 (06/15/06 05:51 PM)

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