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Flutter Dump


AnotherNewb
flutterdumper


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965001 posted 01/23/11 10:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Youtube

Set up:
14b turbo
2.5" IC pipes
Injen Intake with 2g MAF
HKS SSQV

1947 is exibiting these symptoms. It sounds like a horse whineying. After searching around I am unable to find a solid reasoning or solution to this problem (better BOV is not a solution). All the Vacuum lines are new, and the BOV is authentic. Also it is being recirculated with no noise insert. Has anyone had this problem with their car?The flutter dump is worse at part throttle but at wide open nearly nonexistant. The car has 17-20hg of vacuum so that isn't the problem and the BOV has a dedicated vacuum line to it (it might be tee'd off the line for the BC/WG).


Please discuss.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965083 posted 01/23/11 03:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Isn't Flutterdump from compressor surge, allowing the flapper on the WG to open slightly undrer boost, not making a complete seal?

Matt didn't tell me he was having these problems. But ^ that is how I believe flutterdump happens.



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beaner
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965086 posted 01/23/11 03:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I always thought it was from the bov spring/adjustment being too soft.

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KiNgMaRtY
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965260 posted 01/24/11 11:19 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Depending on which version of the SSQ he has, some are not adjustable



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AnotherNewb
flutterdumper


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965348 posted 01/24/11 05:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah, this one isn't adjustable. Is it from too stiff or too soft of a spring, I am getting mixed info on it.



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ninnyVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965379 posted 01/24/11 08:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm having the exact same issue! Thought it was from my HKS, but after swapping back to a stock BOV, it continues. Even under very low boost (0-3psi) while cruising down the road

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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965461 posted 01/25/11 11:25 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You might be able to put a stiffer preload on the wastegate actuator. It could be coming from the exhaust side instead of the BOV. All hks sound the same and do have some surge. Its a balance of BOV, which type boost controller you have exhaust etc but if you remove the two bolts on the actuator and stack a couple washers under each and reinstall it put more of a load on the actuator and makes for a tighter seal.

This is the reason I went to the synchronic bov for mine



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Edited by curtis (01/25/11 11:27 AM)

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2of9
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965475 posted 01/25/11 01:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This is how mine sounds:
click

I always though it was bov related but never really thought about the wastegate actuator deal. When I went with the 2g mas setup, it still sounds like this. Not sure if the BOV is even functioning because I currently have a knock off right now Checked the turbo for any shaft play and there is EXTREMELY little play in and out(probably not even notable but still...), no side to side movement. I remember when I was boosting it'd would actually do it like what the video did (flutter-dump). It would flutter and then dump. the car still flutters even under vacuum.



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Jesse_W
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965477 posted 01/25/11 01:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had the same problem with a greddy type S. With that bov i could actually adjust the spring and it fixed the issue. I'd be down to try that washer issue. Get ahold of me and we can see if this will solve the problem.




Jesse


BTW i had a friend that had a mazda speed6 with the HKS and had the exact same problem.


Edited by Jesse_W (01/25/11 01:48 PM)

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965486 posted 01/25/11 02:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My HKS flutters on rare occasion. Depends on throttle position, load, and how into the throttle I was before partially letting off. Mostly it works just fine.

Does anybody have actual proof of a fluttering BOV damaging a turbo? I haven't actually ever heard of it happening, just a rumor that it's bad.



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KiNgMaRtY
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965487 posted 01/25/11 02:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Get rid of the knock off and get a real one. They just DON'T function correctly unless you mod it.



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Edited by KiNgMaRtY (01/26/11 09:38 AM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965499 posted 01/25/11 03:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting turbowop:

My HKS flutters on rare occasion. Depends on throttle position, load, and how into the throttle I was before partially letting off. Mostly it works just fine.

Does anybody have actual proof of a fluttering BOV damaging a turbo? I haven't actually ever heard of it happening, just a rumor that it's bad.




Flutter seems to occur at lower boost(from my experience), so I would suspect at such low turbo shaft RPMs any bov flutter(bov opening and closing several times after throttle is lifted) would not be able to cause damage.

However this 'flutterdump' sounds like it is not a great thing. If I'm reading this right, and looking at the video correctly, it means the BOV is opening late. Therefore allowing a pressure spike in the IC piping, thus causing the compressor to surge creating the funny noise. It would seem to me this is due to an overly strong BOV spring, or perhaps a damaged or sticking BOV valve. Or perhaps leaky BOV vacuum lines.



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AnotherNewb
flutterdumper


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965521 posted 01/25/11 04:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
A lot of great info in this thread, I take it everyone used the computer at work to replie to it. Anyways I believe I will start with a dedicated vacuum line for the BOV since it can't be adjusted. I'm not really sure how the waste gate would tie into this problem, but "shimming" it is another viable test.

BTW, thanks for the title... I guess its better than "special needs".



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2of9
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965528 posted 01/25/11 05:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
here's is about 1 hour ago.

click



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onesickcrx
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965551 posted 01/25/11 06:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting AnotherNewb:

Youtube

Set up:
14b turbo
2.5" IC pipes
Injen Intake with 2g MAF
HKS SSQV

1947 is exibiting these symptoms. It sounds like a horse whineying. After searching around I am unable to find a solid reasoning or solution to this problem (better BOV is not a solution). All the Vacuum lines are new, and the BOV is authentic. Also it is being recirculated with no noise insert. Has anyone had this problem with their car?The flutter dump is worse at part throttle but at wide open nearly nonexistant. The car has 17-20hg of vacuum so that isn't the problem and the BOV has a dedicated vacuum line to it (it might be tee'd off the line for the BC/WG).


Please discuss.




My car did exactly that when I had the HKS on it once I installed my Tial it stopped... not pointing fingers but



Lack of boost

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onesickcrx
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965553 posted 01/25/11 06:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting 2of9:

here's is about 1 hour ago.

click




Can you get video of the inside of the blowoff valve? At the end of your video you can see inside but you didn't make it stumble. I am interested to see if it's actually moving or not and if it is does it go with the sound



Lack of boost

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2of9
Hellaflush
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965577 posted 01/25/11 08:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
the bov has two vacuum hoses. top hose on bov is goes to the intake manifold and the lower one is open. maybe i just need to plug the bottom one.

click



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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965607 posted 01/26/11 12:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting 2of9:

here's is about 1 hour ago.

click




So you barely rev it and it flutters? My HKS doesn't do anything when free revving it quickly in neutral since it doesn't build boost.

Mine is one of the older ones that is adjustable. I think I remember tightening it a hair when I first installed it, but this was back in '03 or so.



-Mark

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beaner
Blew1 Guy Today


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965614 posted 01/26/11 01:55 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
@2of9 it sounds like compressor surge. looks like your bov isn't working at all. sort those vacuum lines out or jump ship to another bov.

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965615 posted 01/26/11 02:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
How do you get compressor surge without even going into boost? He's not stutter boxing it in those vids.



-Mark

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beaner
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965619 posted 01/26/11 03:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
air stopped when the tb is slammed shut and pushed back past the compressor wheel as it continues to spin.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965648 posted 01/26/11 09:32 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I *highly* doubt it is surge.

2of9, in the video it almost looked like you can see the valve inside the BOV. Can you try to take another video of the valve itself and see what it is doing?



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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965649 posted 01/26/11 09:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Beaner:

air stopped when the tb is slammed shut and pushed back past the compressor wheel as it continues to spin.




It's not pressurized at that point, so no, that's not surge.



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2of9
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965651 posted 01/26/11 09:44 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Definitely not surging because surging only happens in boost and I'm definitely not in boost in the videos.

As of right now, the 2g intake has nothing plugged after the 2g mas so I will plug up the holes after the 2g mas. As for the vacuum hoses, there are two on the bov and the top on is going straight to the intake manifold. the bottom hose on the bov is open. It seems like that might be the best video i can get out of the bov. I've tried different angles and you could barely see the valve and this shot is probably the best. Oh yeah, btw, this is a knock off bov



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 965652 posted 01/26/11 09:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I have owned so many different BOV's and the HKS always seemed the most troublesome as far as getting it to open. Their are just so much stiffer and are harder to open. They tend to flutter down low.

I would try using another BOV or put the oem BPV back in. If it still flutters than you know that's not the issue (assuming your stock bpv is in good shape, as I had a bad fluttering stock BPV once)



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