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Guys with Civic Radiators !!!


cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 864276 posted 01/11/10 11:38 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm having real clearance issues with both my I/C piping and turbo, to the point that I'm looking at trying a Civic Radiator.

Now I have read the existing threads and ascertained that a 2.5" core with a 14" SPAL fan works well. At the end of the day I don't know how much power the car will make but potentially let's assume 400-500 hp. I need to retain the A/C so I will have a condenser in front of this and I live in a tropical climate (think 38 degrees ambient at the height of summer!!!)

Am I going to be pushing my luck as well as a load of coolant if I go with a half sized radiator? I do not doubt the efficiency of these units, nor do I believe everything I read on "tooners" but I've yet to find someone in Texas running one with A/C still installed, which would be sort of comparable conditions to the ones I'd be expecting to run it in.

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belize1334
well bread and nobly conceived
1334/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 864311 posted 01/11/10 02:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Being sure to state that I don't actually have a Civic radiator and that what follows is merely educated speculation w/o any experience to back it up...my thoughts are these:

The problem with half-size units is that their core volume is made up primarily by depth instead of frontal area like a traditional unit. This is a problem for three reasons. The first is that your core is exposed to a smaller channel of oncoming air meaning that your total airflow through the core is less. The second is that the deeper core is more restrictive so your column of channeled air will have a higher percentage deflected around the core which again restricts airflow. Third and lastly, the airflow that you do get is less effective since the air is heated as it passes through the core so that there is less heat transfer as you move from front to back. As I understand it the rule of thumb is that every successive inch is 1/2 as efficient as the last. So for the same volume you get less effect from a deep core than from one with a large exposed frontal area. In order to offset this you need to take measures to increase the airflow through the core or else use a unit with a much higher core volume.

I've heard that some people have good luck with the civic sized units but, again, I think that they have to make SURE to have alot of airflow across it and I doubt that you're gonna get that with the condenser blocking the way. Combine that with your projected power levels and I'd be concerned about overheating.

It seems like there are really two alternatives...

1) Compromise with the core. Find a unit that satisfies your clearance issue but isn't as small as the Civic style. Maybe an Integra unit would work?

2) Use the Civic style but fabricate a custom shroud so that you don't waste ANY of the air between the condenser and the radiator. You could also put a pusher fan on the front of the condenser and set if up to run in conjunction with your puller so that the fan system has a bigger impact.

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blue642
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 864318 posted 01/11/10 03:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I also have no experience with the civic radiators, but figured I'd throw another option out there. Not near as narrow as the civic, but still smaller then stock is a dual pass scirocco style radiators. Dual pass is also a lot more thermal effiecent than a traditional cross/downflow so it should deal with the heat better. I haven't any issues with mine when I actually had my galant running, but I have no AC and its wasn't terribly hot. Run some searches on here as there are quite a few guys that have/had this setup in higher powered cars that might have a little more feedback.

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Garfield Wright
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 864371 posted 01/11/10 06:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      


Paul,
I'm pretty sure you already read this post. I'm running a similar setup & still have a/c in my car. I've only been driving it daily for a couple weeks now & haven't turned on the a/c because it doesn't work. I'm running a 12" puller fan & will put in a pusher soon. The temp is right around 200 but I want to bring that down. I've only been running 9 psi but have no issues so far. Plans are to finally do a propper fuel system, fix an exhaust manifold leak (pesky broken stud), tune it to about 420 whp & run it. I'm still on a stock motor so while my turbo can support more I won't go pass that point.

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thecman02
too lazy to look
580/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 864377 posted 01/11/10 07:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have a Koyo Civic Race Radiator and a FAL12. This setup is identical as far as I know to the setup that is used on the AMS EVO TT car. I figured they are pushing 500whp and beating the snot out of it on the track with out overheating. I should be fine as well. By piecing it together I've saved a large chunk of money compared to buying the AMS EVO setup. I'm still running my AC core as well. I've only driven on days as hot as 75 outside so far though so I can't tell you how well it does on really hot days. However I've never read any hotter then 195. I'm running a blend of 50/50 with Redline Water Wetter. If I have problems during summer I might try a mix of coolant leaning greater towards water.

Ohhh and I had to switch to the half sized because the damn Holset Compressor housing is so fecking big. All the fitment issues I've had could have funded a nice GT35R HTA setup. Live and learn I guess. Atleast my rebuilds are cheap as hell and it does spool damn fast.



580/1000
2013 Max Effort Winner
-Chris

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 864519 posted 01/12/10 07:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well thanks for the comments. It is good to hear both sides but it still leaves me undecided. The combination of stop and go traffic in the urban areas of Hong Kong, sweltering summer temps, and the need for really effective A/C make this possibly the most demanding environment you can make for a radiator or a cooling system.

Having got this far, I also think it would be foolish to compromise the whole car over say $600-$1000, even if that means fabricating some parts and perhaps rerouting the I/C piping. So I think I'm going to try to work around what I've got for now and get the car running with the new turbo without changing too much else.

Then it will be time to register the car again for a year and maybe send it over to some of you guys to do some fabrication work.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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OMFGeofffff
All I want is a dodgy
567/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 901783 posted 05/25/10 08:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm not sure what to do either. I ditched my a/c condensor for a lil bit until I absolutely know what I want to do. I'm using dsm short route intercooler piping and the jpipe gives absolutely no room for the stock radiator. I can either....

A) Ditch the A/C and run scirocco style radiator.

B) Put A/C back in and run a civic style radiator.


My future turbo goal is a HX35. If I go option B then the compressor cover will still clear the civic radiator right? Also if I keep the A/C and run both a puller fan behind the radiator and then a pusher on the passenger side of the condenser(so it's inline with radiator) will I still run cool enough?



-Jeff
Kensington Grey - A87 stock (EQ/input, no sunroof)
XBL - uh oh its JEFF

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bazeng
work in progress


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 901892 posted 05/26/10 02:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
FYI,

The AMG with the Civic radiator is still going well. It doesn't over heat. Only slightly on the DYNO but street driving is fine.



Australia's Slowest VR4

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dsmless
gay without homosexual tendencies
96/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 901902 posted 05/26/10 03:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have tried a that route with a civic half radiator, at regular cruising temp it worked great but as soon as the ac is on the car overheats very quick, I have the stock pusher infront of the condensor but a 14 puller u=on the radiator but it still overheated in arizonas 100 degree, I ended up trimming some sheetmetal infront of the condensor and pushed the condensor about 2 inches foward and a 1g mishimoto radiator behind it with a 14 and 12 fan on it since then no overheating and very nice cold ac



96/1000 back in the driveway jsb getting a
lego motor

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OMFGeofffff
All I want is a dodgy
567/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 901905 posted 05/26/10 04:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Did you have the stock pusher on the passenger side of the condenser?



-Jeff
Kensington Grey - A87 stock (EQ/input, no sunroof)
XBL - uh oh its JEFF

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Garfield Wright
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 901929 posted 05/26/10 08:05 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm running the stock pusher in front of the condensor on the driver's side & a slim fan as a puller behind the civic radiator. It warmed up here so I got my a/c fixed. About 2 weeks in traffic the temp gauge went up to 1/2. I now have another fan to install this week in front of the condensor on the passenger side in front of the radiator. I'll report back on how it works.

When selecting a civic radiator, you must make sure it's at least 2" thick. I've been running this setup for quite sometime now without any issues. It was only when I got my a/c fixed I noticed the temp gauge went up. Other than that I never had a problem.


Edited by Garfield Wright (05/26/10 08:38 AM)

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thecman02
too lazy to look
580/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 901935 posted 05/26/10 08:16 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Alright so we had an almost 90 degree day with 90+ head index and my car couldn't keep up with the AC on. With the AC on I was running 210-15. I'm still running 50/50 mix, but I think I may gain quite a bit of cooling running a more aggressive water mix. I've also been reading about straight water during the summer, but I haven't found any definitive answers on the pump seal lubrication/anti corrosion packages of any additives I've found. I've read numerous people running two bottles of Redline WW and distilled water having no problems, but I've also heard conflicting reports. Some people say Zertex and a couple other similar products have worked. Also GUNK or BAR or something has an additive package but it was oil based which I wasn't to fond of. Anyone on the boards have much experience with distilled water and X*******X additive?



580/1000
2013 Max Effort Winner
-Chris

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OMFGeofffff
All I want is a dodgy
567/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 902038 posted 05/26/10 03:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Is this too thin of a core? click



-Jeff
Kensington Grey - A87 stock (EQ/input, no sunroof)
XBL - uh oh its JEFF

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BoostedAWD91
Senior Member
815/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 902051 posted 05/26/10 04:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Is there any other scirocco style radiators besides afco? The afco radiators aren't the best quality as mine fell apart already.I need another one to fit where the AC condenser fits



#815/2000- Lexus Pearl White


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alansupra94
Excuse the retarded question.
4/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 902188 posted 05/26/10 10:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It always bothers me how close the turbo is to the radiator.

I guess I will be in this same predicament when I upgrade to the holset HX-40.

I know the supra community likes these fans. click

They can flow 3000CFM!



1992 Galant VR4
1996 Toyota Supra TT

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iLLeffeKt vr-4
Hertz pulverized mine
1759/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 902248 posted 05/27/10 06:57 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting thecman02:

Anyone on the boards have much experience with distilled water and X*******X additive?




I ran 180* thermostat, 25/75 coolant/distilled water and 1 bottle of water wetter. My car never overheated but the entire A/C system was removed from the car. The hottest the car got was about ~215*. It happened while getting stuck in traffic in the Lincoln Tunnel. I remember the temperature was in the low 90*'s but the humidity was 100%. I could barely breathe in there. I couldn't turn it off cause traffic was moving but everyone was doing like 2mph.

Quoting OMFGeofffff:

Is this too thin of a core? click




That seems on the thin side. Get something that's at least 2.25"

Click here to see the civic radiator I had.



Adrian
1759/2000 Summit White Sold
1991 Eclipse GS-X Sold
2013 EVO X MR - Daily

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OMFGeofffff
All I want is a dodgy
567/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 902517 posted 05/28/10 02:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I can't seem to find that specific radiator. Is this a decent deal...

click



-Jeff
Kensington Grey - A87 stock (EQ/input, no sunroof)
XBL - uh oh its JEFF

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Garfield Wright
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 902630 posted 05/28/10 02:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting OMFGeofffff:

Is this too thin of a core? click




This does seem on the slim side. Notice how the tape measure is angled to simulate a 2" core

The last one you linked is a 2 3/8". I'd give that one a try before the 1st one you linked. You should try to see if you can get it without that cute little fan. Instead get the fan posted above that says the Supra guys seem to run. That's the same fan I just put on yesterday. So far my factory gauge hasn't moved a bit.

You also want to cut away those thin circular supports. It allows for better dispersment of the air away from the radiator. You want to leave the straight supports that go from the motor to the shroud.

Something to also note, you have to tap the hole for the factory sensor. It just needs to be a little bigger. I also made a simple bracket to secure the top of the radiator members showcase picture of my setup In addition I welded a mounting bracket cut from a 1/2" thick aluminum stick to the bottom of the radiator. This allowed me to use the lower factory support to secure the bracket to. Factory upper & lower radiator hoses were kept. I just had to clamp down the lower hose really tight as the outlet pipe is a tad smaller. I haven't had a problem with any of these modifications I made.


Edited by Garfield Wright (06/01/10 04:39 PM)

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OMFGeofffff
All I want is a dodgy
567/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 909084 posted 06/21/10 02:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^^^ I plan on picking up a civic radiator this week. What size is our temp sensor? I have to drill it out and tap it correct? I just want to be prepared ahead of time when the radiator arrives.



-Jeff
Kensington Grey - A87 stock (EQ/input, no sunroof)
XBL - uh oh its JEFF

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bazeng
work in progress


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 909097 posted 06/21/10 06:44 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I used the stock fan mounts on the civic radiator as the radiator brackets to the chassis.

I didn't want to drill any holes in the AMG so I decided to use the existing holes in the rad support.
I also decided to minimise the welding on the radiator so I grounded off the civic nipples/rods and gave it a polish.

As for the temp sensor, the tank thickness is thick, but not as thick as I would have liked, so I just had a little boss welded underneath and then tapped to suit the stock temp fan sensor.

I also retained the stock lower nipple on the civic radiator (lower tank) and used it in the stock galant mounting bracket grommet.

The overall performance is good on the street and dyno.

I am using it with a lower temp thermostat though (78 deg)

Here are the pics of my install.

























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willyp20
Junior Member
794/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 909157 posted 06/21/10 11:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I put a civic rad in mine too. Very much like yours. Except I used a 3/8 npt pipe tap and tapped the drain cock to accept the temp sensor. I see that you still have a/c on your car. Is the rad enought to keep it cool in the warm summers? Also are you running a 50/50 mix or water wetter and water only?



Could be fun!

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bobdole
Old member with new to me VR4 and starting over. Respect your elders kids
504/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 909178 posted 06/21/10 01:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
FYI: This company makes a nice civic Radiator.

click

A local shop to me sell them.

click



Great deal on BC coilovers. Hit me up.
www.b2autodesigns.com
Email: [email protected]
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willyp20
Junior Member
794/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 909188 posted 06/21/10 01:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting OMFGeofffff:

^^^^ I plan on picking up a civic radiator this week. What size is our temp sensor? I have to drill it out and tap it correct? I just want to be prepared ahead of time when the radiator arrives.




3/8 NPT. Worked for me. I believe I used a 14.5mm drill and the tap was alittle tight going in. I did it a thread at a time so I could get the depth correct. Used WD 40 to ensure it didnt clog the threads on the tap. Works well in the drain plug hole.



Could be fun!

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Garfield Wright
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 909238 posted 06/21/10 04:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Nice detailed pics Bazeng. That radiator looks identical to the one I'm running.

I've got my a/c fixed & my factory temp gauge hasn't gone up like with the other fan I was running. This fan is larger & I recommend anyone doing this to go with the largest fan you can fit in the space. With the other fan I was around 210 degrees under normal conditions & it would go up in traffic with the a/c on. I contemplated putting another fan infront of the radiator but I'm glad I just went with a larger fan. I think I'm going to replace my factory condensor fan as well. It seems to pull a lot of juice when it comes on.

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OMFGeofffff
All I want is a dodgy
567/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 909287 posted 06/21/10 07:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Quoting willyp20:

I put a civic rad in mine too. Very much like yours. Except I used a 3/8 npt pipe tap and tapped the drain cock to accept the temp sensor. I see that you still have a/c on your car. Is the rad enought to keep it cool in the warm summers? Also are you running a 50/50 mix or water wetter and water only?




I assum you just unscrew the temp sensor to drain your coolant then. Seems like a hassle but it might be a better idea than drilling a brand new hole through the endtank. I'm torn between the two.



-Jeff
Kensington Grey - A87 stock (EQ/input, no sunroof)
XBL - uh oh its JEFF

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