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DIAGNOSE MY CAR!!- UPDATE: ITS ALIVE!!!!!


mean_green
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1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744307 posted 01/11/09 11:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
-Another night defeated by the G monster. I Have been in the process of making my Galant a little more my own since I bought it a year ago.
The tasks: replace cracked radiator with small civic PWR rad, redo exhaust CMP style threw GW, 5-lug conversion w/out ABS, Cruise control delete. Then little clean up things like new turbo hardware, emissions-delete stuff, tidying a few things up, you get the picture.

Last two weeks I've gone into the shop every couple of days where my galant is expecting to drive it out by the end of the day, and each time it defeats me with more work then I realized or new problems that need taking care off.

Finally tonight I get to the point where I can give it a little try to start and make sure everything has gone together fine and as my luck would have it, it wont start!!

Symptoms are as follows:
Cranks but won't turn over.
Batt, Brake, and Anit-lock lights are all on- has had alternator replaced and some of thats due to having ABS sensors unplugged.
While cranking Anit-lock light goes off and 4WS comes on??
Clutch stays to floor (may have not done a porper job bleeding w/ s.s. line)
Tends to keep cranking for a sec after letting off the key
Buzzing glove box (MFI? and if so how do I fix, donor GS-T raid?)

Then I read something about a triangle shaped connector could be the culprit for a G not turning over. Something that could get mixed up while deleting the cruise control. Well the problem is I found a total of 4 triangle shaped connectors not plugged in. Somes my doing and some the previous two owners.

First two are part of the MAS harness and theres even another one there too not triangular shaped and slightly larger w/out a home.

The others locations are by the firewall where carbon cannister use to be and one down in the passenger top corner of the engine bay.

Then theres other plugs free, one by the slave cylinder's reservior and two big connectors close to where the cannister use to be.

I know a probably have a few things contributing to the car not starting but I hope they're all easy fixes and nothing like the dreaded caps melting. I need help ASAP for this Montana weather is killing me with my winter ride being a JSB.

TIA
-Alan


Edited by mean_green (02/17/09 11:23 AM)

Posts: 313 | From: Park City, MT 59063 | Member Since: 11/12/07 | IP: (24.72.223.108) | Report this post to a Moderator

mean_green
Member +
1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744429 posted 01/12/09 12:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Also I rewired the o2 that was in the evo3 when I got it from a four wire to a two wire connector that my G has. Could I have done that wrong and would cause it to not even turn over?

Last things I checked last night were plugs and wires and after putting some dielectric grease on the plugs themselves I realized I should check the firing order and two and three were mixed up on the spark plug side.

Dont know if this happened before I was cranking on her or I just mixed them up after that grease but that could be a cause of the problem too maybe...

Somebody? Anybody? KEYDIVER?? Im in depsrate need of help

-Alan

Posts: 313 | From: Park City, MT 59063 | Member Since: 11/12/07 | IP: (69.51.117.6) | Report this post to a Moderator

toybreaker Galant VR4.org Moderator
it's peace of mind at 100 mph plus
1990/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744430 posted 01/12/09 12:38 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Also I rewired the o2 that was in the evo3 when I got it from a four wire to a two wire connector that my G has. Could I have done that wrong and would cause it to not even turn over?




The galantvr4 uses a four wire o2, so you should probably look to see where the other (probably heater) wires are, and if they are well isolated from each other.

I would also suggest you pull the ecu for a quick look see to make sure the board doesn't have acid damage.

Definately check for spark and fuel to begin narrowing down where the problem lies.

Is the fuel pump rewired?

Other than that, just go back over your work and see if anything looks out of place.

Good luck, and just think how sweet it'll be when it rolls out under it's own power.



the bitterness of low quality remains long after the temporary joy of a low price has faded

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autobahntom
Senior Member
67/1000
974/1000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744432 posted 01/12/09 12:38 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Check the basics.
Do you have fuel and spark?
crank the engine, then pull a plug out and see if it smells like gas or old gas (or is wet with old gas/water)?
Check for spark-while the plug is out, put it in the spark plug wire and lay it on the driver's fender well. Crank the engine over and see if you have spark.
Tom

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14bCrazy
turdpolisher


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744440 posted 01/12/09 12:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had some issues last week and the spark plugs ended up being fouled out.



1240/2000 - Sold
2004 Honda Pilot"It has VTEC!!!" Gave it back.
2005 WRX Wagon - Deer Hunter Edition--RIP
2003 Suzuki Katana 600
2000 Passat wagon crap car


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mean_green
Member +
1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744526 posted 01/12/09 04:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Talked to the previous owner that did some modding before me and he already had all the caps replaced some Im praying there isnt acid damage even w/ those replaced.

After I get off work tonight Im going to get an o2 socket and pull the o2 and harness I rewired and put the original one it was last running on back in.

The MFI relay is something I would like more info on, like if that buzzing from underneath my glove box is it, what do I need to replace it? Can I steal the MFI from a 1g auto gs-t or do I need a galant specific one? What would cause that relay to not correctly work all of the sudden. Would something like cranking on it while the 2 and 3 spark plugs were switched fry the MFI??

Plugs shouldnt have changed I wouldnt think, Didnt do anything to them since it last ran. What would be the best gapage to use on it lightly modded.(evo3 turbo, ex mani, dp; 3in turbo back; dejon tool intake w/ K&N) maybe PSI too while we are at it.

Im going to ask the previous owner if he has rewired the fuel pump cuz that might be in store and I have access to an evo9 one if it'll be better.

Going to try all the basics like fuel and spark tonight as well,

Thanks for all the help, keep the ideas coming.
-Alan

Posts: 313 | From: Park City, MT 59063 | Member Since: 11/12/07 | IP: (24.72.223.108) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744643 posted 01/12/09 09:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
A buzzing MFI relay is almost always a bad ECU. The previous owner may have replaced the bad caps, but the problem is that most guys don't clean up all the acid laying on the board, and you can't find all of it in most cases. So, the acid continues to do its damage for years, and the ECU fails again.
The ECU grounds 2 different wires to the MFI relay, one half turns on the fuelpump and the other half powers up all the electrical stuff under the hood. You should try manually grounding those 2 wires, pins 63 and 56 of the ECU, to see if the buzzing stops and the car starts:



I don't suppose you have a logger to talk to the ECU? Every GVR-4 owner should have 2 things:
1) a datalogger
2) the DSM CD Manual
If you can't talk to the ECU, you are dead in the water. If you can log the ECU, it enables you to see what the different sensors are seeing, making it easier to troubleshoot.


Edited by keydiver (01/12/09 09:26 PM)

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mean_green
Member +
1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744660 posted 01/12/09 10:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Wheres the best place to pick a datalogger kit up cheap? Since dsmloggers.com site has been down forever now I dont know who else to go with that'll get me the same quality at that price.

-Alan



1632 & now 1793 -1/6/18


Posts: 313 | From: Park City, MT 59063 | Member Since: 11/12/07 | IP: (24.72.223.108) | Report this post to a Moderator

mean_green
Member +
1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744716 posted 01/13/09 01:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
UPDATE:
I went a saw the G monster tonight for just an hour or so-

The buzzing noise doesnt seem to be coming from the glove box area but more like the center console, cd player. Either theres a bad relay making noise under there or my cd player just was checking to see if theres a cd in her louder than normal.

Still have to check for spark/fuel but could I have fried the booster pack, the ignitor chip, or something similar cranking while number 2 and 3 spark plug wires were switched on the spark plug end? Ive seen that happen on Hondas and am sure thats a possibility.

I looked into getting a logger on the cheap and click seemed to have the best deal. Only catch is that it says out of stock but I emailed them and am hoping the site isnt updated much.

Going to go from there, any other ideas chime in PLEASE.

-Alan



1632 & now 1793 -1/6/18


Posts: 313 | From: Park City, MT 59063 | Member Since: 11/12/07 | IP: (24.72.223.108) | Report this post to a Moderator

keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744761 posted 01/13/09 07:19 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

could I have fried the booster pack, the ignitor chip, or something similar cranking while number 2 and 3 spark plug wires were switched on the spark plug end?



Plugs 2 and 3 are off the same coil of our wasted spark system, so it doesn't matter if they are switched.
I just recommend getting the cable from this guy:
eBay
There are tons of PDA's on eBay, like this nice Palm IIIc:
eBay Palm IIIc
Then, all you need is the Serial Hotsync Cable, very cheap:
eBay Palm IIIc Serial Hotsync Cable
If you search you will find tons more of the PDA's and cables. The MMcD software is free.

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Diego
Mad Hatter Suite Touche Debackle Guage filled by Justin
1309/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744824 posted 01/13/09 10:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
after you get the hotsync cable what is the program you need to d-load... i need to reload that into my palm iiic



"I love blackjack. But I'm not addicted to gambling. I'm addicted to sitting in a semi circle."

91 nile black vr4, 1309/2000

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H05TYL
Hover/Stand/Bend


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744906 posted 01/13/09 01:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
mmcdlogger

link



JDM E39A - 0010362 VR-4 Project 燃えないゴミ(Unburnable Junk) - stolen
JDM E39A - 0020096 VR-4 Daily - sold


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keydiver
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 744912 posted 01/13/09 01:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just linked to 2 versions on my server last week:
MMcD Links

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mean_green
Member +
1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 745097 posted 01/13/09 09:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
FYI obdloggers.com doesnt make the kits any longer. Not enought demand for them they said....

Posts: 313 | From: Park City, MT 59063 | Member Since: 11/12/07 | IP: (24.72.223.108) | Report this post to a Moderator

mean_green
Member +
1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 745886 posted 01/15/09 03:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
DESPERATE NEED OF HELP!!

I dont know what to try anymore, can someone please just tell me a few things I can try step by step? Or someday when I can get the money for a logger will that give me enough of an idea of where the problem lies?

I bled clutch out completely
The buzzing isnt coming from the glovebox (MFI)
Cranked on her for awhile, pulled #4 plug, doesnt smell like gas or have any on it, laid on fender and cranked- no spark.
Plus I cant hear the fuel pump priming when I turn the key on

What else can I try, this is getting super frustrating and Im about at the end of my rope. Simple problem or not I cant figure it out and have no one but the guys on this board to rely on.

PLEASE PLEASE give me some suggestions!
-Alan

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iceman69510 Galant VR4.org Moderator
Turn Right Racing
855/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 745905 posted 01/15/09 04:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You need to verify you have fuel by making sure the pump runs and pushes gas up to the rail. Use the fuel pump check connector under the hood to do that.

Have you checked all the fusible links and fuses under the hood in the fuse boxes?

How good are you at checking electrical circuits?



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
92 VR4 828 Belize Green-SOLD
91 VR4 115 Nile Black -SOLD

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mean_green
Member +
1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 745920 posted 01/15/09 05:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I dont even know what this "fuel pump check connector is" or how I go about using that. I think if Im not mistaken thats a harness over by the BMC or slave cylinder area??

Im going to go check fuses now, and I've never had to do anything with circuits so Im very noob in that department.

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004tsi
Member
1760/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 745945 posted 01/15/09 06:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
have you checked the cas?



1760/2k Belize few mods...
1991 tsi awd
2008 f150
2014 mazda 3
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mean_green
Member +
1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 745951 posted 01/15/09 06:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Check the fuses under the hood and low and behold MPI fuse if gonzo. Run to a nearby town to grab a replacement (2) and come back, stick it in, AND nothing changed, still just cranks and cranks. Even when I let off the key??

Now the CEL comes on, sort of. Kind of off and on while Im cranking.

How do I check what code(s) its throwing and CAS?

-Alan



1632 & now 1793 -1/6/18


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mean_green
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 745965 posted 01/15/09 07:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
CEL only comes on when MPI fuse is in place...?

If I understand right, to check for code I connect MPI fuse prongs then ground? Then count the flashes? theres no simpler jumper spot like in a honda?

I didnt mess with anything fuel wise so what could be up?

-Alan



1632 & now 1793 -1/6/18


Posts: 313 | From: Park City, MT 59063 | Member Since: 11/12/07 | IP: (24.72.223.108) | Report this post to a Moderator

mean_green
Member +
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 746477 posted 01/16/09 10:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Got a voltmeter, but its digital so I didnt do me much good. Now cars not cranking at all and I havent changed anything.

So I guess my next step is get a logger if that'll help diagnose my problem or maybe one of those Walmart diagnostics to check the CEL

So frustrated,
-Alan



1632 & now 1793 -1/6/18


Posts: 313 | From: Park City, MT 59063 | Member Since: 11/12/07 | IP: (24.72.223.108) | Report this post to a Moderator

iceman69510 Galant VR4.org Moderator
Turn Right Racing
855/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 746552 posted 01/17/09 09:36 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The logger or whatever won't help you much if it is not running. If it won't even crank over now, you have to start with the basics. Do you know anybody experienced with vehicle diagnostics that can help you on site?



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
92 VR4 828 Belize Green-SOLD
91 VR4 115 Nile Black -SOLD

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mean_green
Member +
1632/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 746574 posted 01/17/09 11:37 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I dont have anyone to help me thats kind of the trouble. I was hoping someone could give me ideas to go after in a step by step type fashion.
-Alan



1632 & now 1793 -1/6/18


Posts: 313 | From: Park City, MT 59063 | Member Since: 11/12/07 | IP: (69.51.117.6) | Report this post to a Moderator

1gcrazy
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 746809 posted 01/18/09 04:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You can even make your own cable... Try going to a local pawn shop, they have tons of PDA's and i'm sure you can pick one up for cheap. If its more expensive than ebay, talk them down. I'm sure they're buying more than they can sell these days.

Yeah, the making your own cable, just a bunch of soldering and a trip to Radio Shack. I can link a couple pages I wrote a couple years ago about it. You can even emulate a pda on a laptop and solder together a cable with a slightly different schematic and viola... I did it once and found my pda was easier to use... didn't feel like slamming my laptop shut in the middle of a race. Plus if my floorboard falls out it might fall in the hole...

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vr4play
handles best on 3 tires
816/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 747247 posted 01/19/09 11:16 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I think you need to recheck your wiring. The o2 sensor with 2 wires has me concerned that you may have wired it into one of the coolant temp switches or something. Also make sure the transistor and coil pack are plugged in. Wiggle the plug on the cas and make sure it is on good. Had a car not start because of a bad connection there before.



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