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Tunerpro with Ostrich - feedback wanted on this...


sleepyvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327796 posted 04/13/06 03:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
OSTRICH $175 click

ostrich install

Product Description: This is THE standalone USB emulator. It might be the ONLY one. It will emulate 2732A, 27C128, 27C256, 27C512, and more! Up to 4mbit (29F040) 8-bit emulation. Robust, USB-based realtime EPROM emulation in the palm of your hand! Battery backup lasts 75 years (standard AAA), so you can leave it in the car if you want to. With this device, you can upload an entirely new binary without a hiccup while the car is running. Or, you can change one parameter at a time. Fully compatible with TunerPro RT and TunerCat.

"I got the Ostrich a while back to use as a tuning device for my 93 Laser and my dad's 91 Talon and I love it! You just plug the laptop in and go. The car doesn't even stumble while uploading bins. Its nice not having to burn chips anymore. This product is great!"

that's one review. I'm reading up on it now, and wanted some feedback from those utilizing it. Sounds cool. I have a gm maft setup - is it possible to get rid of the maft? Some guys on here have said you can get rid of all other piggyback setups with this.


Tunerpro Software - FREE or $30 Donation for RT software

tunerpro

tunerpro features

" Emulation FAQ

What exactly is emulation and what can it do for me?

What emulators does TunerPro RT support?

• The Answers

What exactly is emulation and what can it do for me?

Emulation is the ability to put an auxiliary piece of hardware in place of the EPROM or EEPROM that contains the code your ECM runs. Put simply, its a very powerful replacement for your "chip". Where it is powerful is its ability to speed up and simplify the steps in tuning an EFI system.

Without emulation, the tuning process typically looks like this:

1) Read bin from chip
2) Load bin
3) Modify bin
4) Save bin
5 ) Erase chip
6 ) Burn new image to chip
7 ) Insert chip in ECM
8 ) Test drive car, noting changes
9 ) Drive home
10 ) Pull chip from ECM/Adapter
11 ) go back to step 2 until car is tuned sufficiently

With emulation, the process looks roughly like this:

1) Read bin from chip
2) Load bin into emulator
3) Drive car to determine changes needed
4) Pull over, make changes
5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 until tune is established
6) Save bin
7) Erase Chip
8) Program final chip

The key here is that no longer must you make changes and burn a new chip. The time required to tune is cut at least in half.

Most emulation hardware even provides the ability to make changes while the engine is running! This is great when you have an assistant in the passenger seat to make your changes. You don't even have to pull over!

What emulators does TunerPro RT support?

Transtronics Romulator I and Romulator II, Craig Moates's AutoProm and Ostrich, Bill Hitchcock's Prominator. "

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DarkDevilMMM
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327801 posted 04/13/06 03:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just installed mine couple days ago, totally love it. I can fine tune my injector deadtime, injector size, timing and fuel map on the go, totally awesome. still have a lot to learn tho, my next step is to take out the MAF, reprogram the chip and do speed density, we'll see



huh?

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sleepyvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327803 posted 04/13/06 03:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
stutterbox launch capabilities? (yeah, I know...)

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327806 posted 04/13/06 03:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This is one of the next things on my list, but it doesn't do me a whole lot of good without a laptop yet... Are you asking if there is a stutterbox capability?



-Jeff
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sleepyvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327808 posted 04/13/06 03:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yep.


ostrich on carolina dsm board

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327812 posted 04/13/06 03:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
With Ostrich you can do anything you could normally do by burning to the eprom. And with burning to an eprom, you can do anything that DSMlink could do. Keep in mind that the code is all hex, and it still all hasn't been dis-assembled at this point so you are more or less just limited by that fact.



-Jeff
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sleepyvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327815 posted 04/13/06 04:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
please elaborate on this "hex" deal for the mentally challenged...

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327818 posted 04/13/06 04:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Alright, so here is part of the 'code' that you would pull from our stock eprom:

02 03 06 07 16 2f 8a cb 44 ed 46 ee 40 41 42 e9 d3 d4 cf ce d0 cd 49 d2 e8 e5 e4 40 e0 a1 e6 40 dc dd f1 f3 fe fd 8b d7 d8 a7 a8 89 8d 8e a3 a4 4b 57 58 59 5a 5b 50 51 4e 4f cc 4c 4d 40 8e 01 bf 8d 0f bd d1 7d bd df 71 bd dd 9c bd e5 6d 7e d0 43 cc bf 0f dd 02 03 16 ff 02 2f 00 bd ea 30 cc 1b 3d 97 08 d7 18 cc 5e 0a dd 19 bd d1 62 cd ce 00 57 4f 5f ed 80 cd 8c 01 91 25 f8 cd ce 00

From that, you break down the actual instructions individually, figure out what the hell they mean, and change the code around to do what you want.

As an example, there is obviously a rev limiter in the stock code which just compares the current RPM with a threshold. If it is over the threshold, fuel is cut. If you want to add a stutterbox you would edit that section of code to check first if the car is moving based on the speed sensor and then branch accordingly to the correct rpm (ex. 5000 rpm if speed sensor isn't triggered, 8000 if it is).

Hope that helps



-Jeff
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DarkDevilMMM
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327860 posted 04/13/06 06:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
actually even if you don't have a laptop it's still a very good tool, you can always unplug just the little black box, and reprogram the code.

basically the codes are mostly disassembled already, that's why you see all those 'chips' and dsmlink and stuffs, so sutterbox is not a problem at all, whatever the keydiver chip can do, this can do too. if you can't work with hex code/assembly code directly, you can always use program like tuner pro. tunerpro makes it very very easy, you just have to set it up once, and after that each time you can just change the value graphically. very user friendly, at least to me. here are some screen shots of my setup.


as u can see on the left hand side you can setup and choose what element you want to change, you can add more, but these are the ones that I always use. and on the right hand side shows the corresponding value that my ECU is using.

open loop fuel table, you can either change the number individually or change them in groups, or you can simply use the 3D graph, drag and drop the values.

our favourite timing table, similar to fuel table.

this is the MAF compensation and some closed loop values, and showing what the 2D graphs will look like.

you can tailor all these to your own needs, although DSMLink is easy to use and look better, I still think this is more powerful and can do whatever I want it to do. I am not professional at this or anything in that matter, so maybe some pro user can chime in more. I have to thank Nick for answering my stupid questions.

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BlownMe
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327871 posted 04/13/06 06:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sometimes K.I.S.S. is where it's at. Alot of folks are intimidated by all that you are capable of doing with a tuning tool, be it a stand alone or some type of hex editor(which this is) I think that the interface that you showed looks like it may be very user friendly. If the unit is as powerful as you say, it well may be a better route, i.e more than what most will need and cheaper(?)

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sjg
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327935 posted 04/13/06 09:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Can't say as I am too impressed with moates, although the ostrich looks to be a pretty cool product. I also can't say as I am at all fond of TunerPro, although it does more than my little ditty.

If you're looking for that level of functionality, go DSMLink, imo.

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327973 posted 04/13/06 11:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Care to elaborate on your opinions?



-Jeff
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sleepyvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327974 posted 04/13/06 11:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Can't say as I am too impressed with moates, although the ostrich looks to be a pretty cool product. I also can't say as I am at all fond of TunerPro, although it does more than my little ditty.

If you're looking for that level of functionality, go DSMLink, imo.






I agree whole heartedly...

(note: sarcasm)


Edited by sleepyvr4 (04/14/06 12:36 PM)

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sjg
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 327988 posted 04/14/06 01:26 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Care to elaborate on your opinions?




I wanted to make EvilScribe talk to the Ostrich, that never happened, and not due to my lack of time. I'm going to leave it at that.

As far as TunerPro, I just really don't like the software. It works, and it has all of the features you need to do some pretty serious tuning. The software is free to download, and you don't need a chip burner or anything to play with the software and see how you like it, so everyone who cares to should form their own opinion.

If you're looking for my straight-up recommendation, it's DSMLink, assuming you've outgrown what a keydiver chip can do for you, or want more tuning flexibility.

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328011 posted 04/14/06 06:34 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

I agree whole heartedly...



You're developing opinions without experience with it?

Quote:

I wanted to make EvilScribe talk to the Ostrich, that never happened, and not due to my lack of time. I'm going to leave it at that.



I really have no idea as I've never used it or tried to write any software for it, but if TunerPro RT can do it, it has to be possible, right?

Not really sure what Moate's original intentions for this emulator were, but I would assume a huge concentration was put on being able to test the code on the Ostrich to aid in dis-assembly. I personally think that without the aid of some sort of GUI software, it is practically worthless for tuning. sjg - From some posts you have made more recently, it sounds like you are very capable of writing your own interface for the Ostrich. With that said, I push you to keep trying as competition is never a bad thing!



-Jeff
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Edited by jepherz (04/14/06 06:38 AM)

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Street Surgeon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328013 posted 04/14/06 06:36 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well in my opinion if you're going to go with a DSMlink, do a little homework, save yourself some money, and pick up the ostrich and tunerpro r/t. The ostrich works brilliantly with the tunerpro r/t software, and the program (though it's "just" a hex editor) is actually very user friendly and powerful. You can do 99% of everything DSMlink offers, and there are tons of extra little features that the link overlooks.

Do you have extended fuel and timing maps with the dsmlink?


Check this thread for more info on the tunerpro software / ostrich combo. GREAT info here as well as links to a bunch of "stock" ready to be modified chips.



Cory O.
'92 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 501/1000
Heavily modified, barely driven, some assembly required.


Edited by Street Surgeon (04/14/06 07:05 AM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328014 posted 04/14/06 06:41 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Street Surgeon - I don't know anything about DSMLink, but isn't it basically just an emulator like the Ostrich with software? If so, I would assume that you can do ANYTHING with the Ostrich that you can do with the Link, no?



-Jeff
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Street Surgeon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328023 posted 04/14/06 07:02 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well, I'm by no means an expert on either system but DSMlink is a software package that modifies the code within your eprom ecu. Sure, you can pick different injectors, modify fuel and timing etc. The tunerpro r/t software does the exact same thing but in a slightly different manner. You buy the "ostrich" emulator which is basically an eprom tethered to a cable so you can read and write directly to the chip in realtime. You can either leave the ostrich in the ecu or once you've "tuned" your vehicle to your own liking you can save the settings and burn an eprom for it. Pull the ostrich out and use it in someone elses car or whatever you like!

There are some very nice features such as the "MAF clamp" etc that are present in the dsmlink that haven't been ported over to the tunerpro software but people are CONSTANTLY upgrading and adding features to this software. I mean with tunerpro you can change mafs, injector sizes, injector deatimes, fuel maps, timing maps, stutterboxes, no lift to shift, octane reset, adjust fuelcut, adjust idle, Cyclone Intake Activation RPM and HZ, etc. In the pretty near future I'm sure we'll see integrated MAP support, probably native GM MAF support etc. Of course, if you want the skivvy head over to where all the guys that are actually working and making headway on this process go. That's the dsm-ecu list on yahoo.



Cory O.
'92 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 501/1000
Heavily modified, barely driven, some assembly required.


Edited by Street Surgeon (04/14/06 07:10 AM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328024 posted 04/14/06 07:03 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
?



Cory O.
'92 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 501/1000
Heavily modified, barely driven, some assembly required.


Edited by Street Surgeon (04/14/06 07:04 AM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328031 posted 04/14/06 07:20 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Right, but I guess my question was more on the hardware the DSMLink uses. Isn't it going to be basically the Ostrich (an emulator)? My understanding of the system was that what you are paying for beyond that, is the software that is written for the PC that lets you change all of the variables and gives you a nice GUI...



-Jeff
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Street Surgeon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328048 posted 04/14/06 07:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The dsmlink package is just a custom eprom that you install, then you use their proprietary cable that plugs into the diagnostic port to change the variables in the eprom. Really slick interface actually. The ostrich is an emulator w/cable that takes the info from your tunerpro software and whatever .bin you've got loaded, stores it on the chip, and allows you to modify it with the free software. You can disconnect the cable and leave the ostrich in when you're done, or take it out and burn an eprom with your saved .bin that you created with tunerpro.



Cory O.
'92 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 501/1000
Heavily modified, barely driven, some assembly required.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328053 posted 04/14/06 08:04 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks for clarifying. I've just never seen a DSMLink setup before.



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DarkDevilMMM
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328063 posted 04/14/06 08:28 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

In the pretty near future I'm sure we'll see integrated MAP support




it's already been done, there are couple ppl that are actually using speed density setup along with ostrich and tunerpro, using only a GM MAP sensor and a GM IAT sensor, changed some code in the ECU, which can eliminate the MAF and can vent BOV to atm, which in case I believe dsmlink can't do. also, to me, MAFT pro is kind of too much of money, I am a cheap bastard u know. but for whatever setup there's always pros and cons, the information are out there, you just have to search for it, and everybody have their own preference.



huh?

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Street Surgeon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 328066 posted 04/14/06 08:32 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I knew for quite a while now there have been a few people running the GM MAP sensor with the eprom ecu, but I'm talking about when they finally get around to adding native support inside of the tunerpro .ecu file so we can all play with it with ease That's the beauty of the tunerpro... No messing with hex values etc, just tell it what to do and it takes all the coding out of it!


Edited by Street Surgeon (04/14/06 08:50 AM)

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