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cut oil squirter holes?


tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220642 posted 11/19/15 09:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Has anyone done this to an n/t block?
If you know a place that can do it properly in ny please let me know.

I have a wide block g63b I want to bring up to turbo spec.

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prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220651 posted 11/19/15 12:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I only forsee a lot of discussion on why not to do this. cause org...

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220655 posted 11/19/15 01:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I want to do a stock rebuild to turbo spec. That would include oil squirters (period)

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89Mirageman
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220662 posted 11/19/15 02:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Are you willing to pay shipping both ways to have this done? If not I would make sure they're local.



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fuel
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220671 posted 11/19/15 05:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I honestly wouldn't bother - it's not an absolute necessity and builders often remove them to improve oil pressure and remove a point of failure. The rods have an oil squirter hole in them as well.



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diambo4life
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220682 posted 11/19/15 08:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yup. Ask this guy whose oil squirtter backed out and ended up spinning 2 rod bearings and destroying some $$$ rods.



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220709 posted 11/20/15 12:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting fuel:

The rods have an oil squirter hole in them as well.




Stock rods have oil squirter holes in them?

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thomcasey
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220711 posted 11/20/15 01:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The stockers do. I know my Eagle rods do not, but they are on floating pins also, so they are oiled from the squirters. If you look at the stock rods, you can see the oil galley



Thom
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belize1334
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220714 posted 11/20/15 01:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^ Disagree. The stock rods have pressed-in wrist pins. An oiling hole would be completely pointless. Some aftermarket rods feature an internal oiling hole for the floating pin but most do not. Typically the oiling of the wrist pin is achieved through scavenging of oil from the cylinder wall, which then collects in the piston skirt and oils the wrist pin progressively from the piston to the rod. Many engines do not use oil-squirters and still run partial of fully floating wrist-pins. The oil squirters job as a lubricating aid is secondary to it's function in cooling the pistons, hence the use of oil squirters in turbo applications. The choice to use or not use oil-squirters isn't about lubricating the pistons, it's about a compromise between oil pressure, cost-to-install, and piston dome heat (which isn't really a problem for low-to-mid power levels with forged internals).



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thomcasey
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220716 posted 11/20/15 01:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If that is the case, they why the holes from the rod bearing to the wrist pin (with matching holes in the Rod bearings themselves). I would be interested to know the purpose of them.



Thom
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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220728 posted 11/20/15 04:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Stock rods definitely have holes that go to the wrist pins. My eagles do not. I never noticed cylinder wall squirt ports on the stockers though. Not that I ever looked.

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Fish
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220793 posted 11/21/15 07:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      



There is no oil port to the wrist pin. It all goes out this side port on the rod

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220794 posted 11/21/15 07:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Open foot insert mouth. I never actually had a stock rod in my hand only eagle rods. Thank you for clearing that up.

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Fish
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220798 posted 11/21/15 09:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I didn't know it had any oil ports in it. I just happen to have a set from my core engine out in the shop right now.

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r4pt0x
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220842 posted 11/23/15 08:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
These ports only deliver the oil needed at the piston pin for lubrication. The oil squirters deliver a constant oil stream for piston cooling, which is definitely needed for turbo applications and is even present on most 4G63 & 4G67 N/A DOHCs for a reason. Remove them and you will have massive knock problems, especially when using very low octane fuel as you have to in the US. Piston failure is also very likely as the pistons run much higher temperature, especially if EGR is also disabled.


When doing a proper engine rebuild, the regulator valve bolts and the squirters themselves should be replaced but never removed. I always secured the bolts with some loctite on all engines I've rebuild and never had them come loose, even on engines that generate and/or have to take a lot of vibration (rallye). The few clogged up squirters/valves i've seen were always caused by bad and/or old oil.

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prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220843 posted 11/23/15 08:26 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
True to most of that. You can run without squirters without knock issues. Anyone running the 2.4 block will tell you that, or the misc blocks that are sans squirters.

Not a requirement as thousands run without them, but they do help with piston crown cooling quite a bit.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220844 posted 11/23/15 09:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've had an NT block in my car since I broke the last 2.3 and went back to a 2.0. No issues with aftermarket pistons.



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donniekak
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220851 posted 11/23/15 10:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting r4pt0x:

These ports only deliver the oil needed at the piston pin for lubrication. The oil squirters deliver a constant oil stream for piston cooling, which is definitely needed for turbo applications and is even present on most 4G63 & 4G67 N/A DOHCs for a reason. Remove them and you will have massive knock problems, especially when using very low octane fuel as you have to in the US. Piston failure is also very likely as the pistons run much higher temperature, especially if EGR is also disabled.


When doing a proper engine rebuild, the regulator valve bolts and the squirters themselves should be replaced but never removed. I always secured the bolts with some loctite on all engines I've rebuild and never had them come loose, even on engines that generate and/or have to take a lot of vibration (rallye). The few clogged up squirters/valves i've seen were always caused by bad and/or old oil.



I'm running a non turbo block with no squirters at 40psi, no knock issues on e85. The same setup had no issues running 480whp at 25psi on pump gas.

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89Mirageman
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220852 posted 11/23/15 10:57 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting prove_it:

I only forsee a lot of discussion on why not to do this. cause org...

3....2.....1.....




What #'s should I play today?



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220868 posted 11/23/15 03:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
All I asked was who can do this in or around NYC.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220875 posted 11/23/15 06:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard of it being done. People either use them if they have them, or they block them off or swap to an NT block. I'm sure it's possible to do, just saying it's not needed if you are running a forged bottom end. I had bad luck with the 100mm crank, and/or some forged slugs and factory squirters anyway. I've seen a lot of them bent or broken off and laying in the pan.


Edited by EMX5636 (11/23/15 06:50 PM)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220887 posted 11/23/15 10:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If installed properly, there's no way for anything to make contact with an oil squirter short of major engine failures. Wen installing aftermarket pistons they usualy need to be repositioned or bent differently.

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prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220904 posted 11/24/15 09:19 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had to adjust them to clear my wisecos.



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#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220920 posted 11/24/15 07:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Correct, I had to re-position them significantly for the stroker crank.

Another point I just read about this debate is probably true that I didn't even think of. The factory 1G piston is 7.8:1 CR and has a considerable dish. Most forged pistons today are either 8.5 or 9:1+. That should allow more aluminum up in the crown area to dissipate heat better anyway.

Also, the factory pistons have a hole that the tip of the squirter fits up inside, so the oil stays up in the crown longer. I've never seen an aftermarket piston with this, so I think the functionality is probably greatly reduced, on top of the forged vs cast argument.


But to answer your question, and not continue this never-ending debate... Google search 4g64 oil squirters, it looks like a few Evo guys have had this done when building a 2.4 for somewhere in the 150-400 dollar range. Maybe some of them are local to you and could tell you where they had it done.



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Edited by EMX5636 (11/24/15 07:33 PM)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220934 posted 11/25/15 08:21 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
What do you guys think of this as an alternative ?

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