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Re: What is the best 272 cam out there?


canada4g63
Newbie


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217364 posted 09/26/15 04:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
DSMlink, and for cams I know someone said they ran them with out an upgrade valve train, but you increase the chance of your valves floating, broken springs or a valve meeting a piston.



1989 COLT GT
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marvinmadman
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217367 posted 09/26/15 04:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Correct

Quoting Illinoisinc:

Marvin,

I am literally reading this stuff. So I would choose the first one? ECMLink V3 Package (DSM) ??

just want to make sure since this is the correct one. this one seems pretty bad ass...





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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217369 posted 09/26/15 05:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've put a lot of miles and trips to redline on my stock valvetrain with HKS272s. Probably 30k miles and a stack of timeslips like a wad of one dollar bills ready for the strip club. Since '03. That includes two accidental 3-2 shifts that took it over 10k RPM. Still running strong.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (09/26/15 05:05 PM)

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
JDM Unit
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217374 posted 09/26/15 07:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What did I tell you ^^

"Yeah I wouldn't recommending redlining these cams with original springs. I'm sure someone will pipe up and say they do it all the time with no issues in 3..2..1."



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Posts: 8896 | From: zompton | Member Since: 02/24/04 | IP: (75.86.151.204) | Report this post to a Moderator

89Patches
I <3 AMS


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217381 posted 09/27/15 12:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ya but all those people who say the do it all the time actually have experience doing so, like Mr. 1051 and many others. I have never seen a failure of stock valve springs with HKS 272's, They're really not that aggressive of a cam at all...

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217383 posted 09/27/15 02:42 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Just adding my experience after having owned/installed/raced the cams for 12 years now.

Real world experience > Theory

Other than peddle small JDM parts and complain about rust and panel lines, G really has nothing to add to this forum. Especially regarding performance. You gonna take the recommendation from the guy that only posts about installing parts or regurgitates theory, or from a guy that posts actual numbers from the parts he's installed from the past decade+.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051

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BENE38A
Slanging Kiwi parts


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217385 posted 09/27/15 04:05 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Can't argue with that. My suggestion is to test your valve springs and if they are consistent at the 60 pound mark and you want to use the hks cams then use those springs, if not or if aftermarket springs are in the budget buy some new ones.
Here is a write up from a machinist around here that i'm sure most have read click

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217394 posted 09/27/15 01:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Like I said in a few other threads, wopper to post the opposite of what anyone else's "theory, experience or even fact" is in 3..2..1.
Op if you are interested in years, how about my 19 using 272's vs. woppers 12.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217398 posted 09/27/15 02:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You've had HKS 272's in a 4g63t since '96? With an upgraded valvetrain? Please. From the guy that has never posted a single track or dyno number ever since being on this forum. Even if true, that doesn't prove that it isn't highly possible to use them on the stock valvetrain like I have. Go back to hanging from Denso's nuts and leave the actual performance stuff to the real members of this forum.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051

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slugsgomoo
god hates stupid people
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217399 posted 09/27/15 02:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What car have you used then on then? The few times you've posted a car of yours, it's been vastly less modded than my wife's old 1g daily driver...

You've never posted more than jdm > * crap, and a few useful jdm part numbers, besides slinging parts.

I do love how often you argue your theories and opinions versus people who have been there, done that.

I've had 264/272, and 272/272 hks now... And this thread is lulz. They work well with stock valvetrain because their ramp rate isn't nearly as aggressive as GSC, FP or JUN.



-andrew
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GSTwithPSI
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217401 posted 09/27/15 03:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well I'll be damned, a pissing contest going on that wasn't started by me?

I've run HKS 272s on both stock and aftermarket springs. I had no issues with either. I've banged a few 3-2 shifts on stock springs myself, and came out unscathed. It's widely known the HKS 272 is a "drop in" cam, which is a large reason many people run them. That being said, it's also widely known the stock DSM valve springs are notorious for losing tension over time. Running the stock valve springs, you're just as likely to bend valves at high RPM on stock cams than you are on HKS 272s, IMO. If you want the extra security, upgrade. Otherwise, there are plenty of people getting along just fine on stock springs.

Good info on valve springs:
click
click
click

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Olson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217403 posted 09/27/15 04:41 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Brett do we need to start pissing all over this ?

Ill throw my thought in on this.
Ran BC280's (crappy cams i know) on stock springs for a few years and a few times at thunderhill no problems



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turbowop
Hard Snarker
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217405 posted 09/27/15 05:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You guys all do what you want. I was just adding a data point. G decided to call me out, so I responded. Whatevs. My tenure here and the numbers my car has put down over the past 17 years speaks for itself.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (09/27/15 05:15 PM)

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GSTwithPSI
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217406 posted 09/27/15 05:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Nobody's actually pissing on anything. I was just making a sarcastic remark since I'm seemingly the one always stirring the pot around here. I've had HKS 272s in 2 of the 3 VR-4s I've owned (and currently have them in 1837), so that's why I chimed in. There's enough information in the 3 links I provided for the OP, or anyone who reads this thread to make an educated decision on valve springs, even if everything else that has been posted here is completely ignored.

I'm all for theory until it can be proven otherwise. The way you disprove theory it is with real world data, not by talking about rainbows and unicorns while we sit around and give each other hand jobs...Although that's what some would prefer this forum to be like. I agree with Mark; since over a decade of tangible evidence backs up his claim. If he was talking out of his ass (like I've seen a lot of people doing lately), I'd have no problem stating my reasons for disagreeing with him. Call that a pissing war, or whatever you'd like.



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Edited by GSTwithPSI (09/27/15 05:49 PM)

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Olson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217407 posted 09/27/15 05:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
DAmn dude just having fun lol



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citymunky
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217411 posted 09/27/15 06:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
4G63 camshaft showcase

Read this and make up your own mind. All the info and dyno sheets are posted.


Edited by citymunky (09/27/15 06:05 PM)

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diambo4life
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217422 posted 09/27/15 08:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
HKS 272s, perfectly fine with stock valvetrain.

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pot Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217424 posted 09/27/15 09:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting turbowop:

You guys all do what you want. I was just adding a data point. G decided to call me out, so I responded. Whatevs. My tenure here and the numbers my car has put down over the past 17 years speaks for itself.




+1



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ghostinthevr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217430 posted 09/27/15 09:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hold on tight too those nutts, you don't wanna fall mid swing.

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Illinoisinc
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217453 posted 09/28/15 08:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hey guys I really didn't mean to start an argument or anything. Just wanted to know what you guys have been doing since I am all new to pistons.

Overall ALL of you have been more than helpful. We should set up a meet soon ( I am near Chicago )



"Money doesn't sleep, so why should I"

^ the rotary guy who doesn't know anything about pistons lol

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prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217459 posted 09/28/15 09:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Running stock springs works. Upgrading springs while the head is apart is mostly done as a preventive measure and cheap insurance. Stock springs wear out and lose tension. Many reputable machinists that work on the 4G63 will strongly suggest upgraded springs when building a head for that reason.

Can't think of his name right now, but there was a machinist that started a thread showing all the spring rates and fact to support the claim that it's best to upgrade springs if the head is apart.

Again, not mandatory, but cheap insurance. Yes, Mark's real world experience should be noted, but I've seen people bend valves from overreving. It's not a rule that it's optional, but insurance. It is a risk and up to the builder.

As for pistons, I'm using Wiseco and they have taken a beating, but they are noisy. I don't like them for that reason. I got a couple buddies pushing JE and Mahle pistons to past the 600whp mark with good results.



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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217473 posted 09/28/15 11:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What he said ^^. I never said it couldn't be done, just that I wouldn't recommend redlining on stock springs. My first dsm was a 92' gsx I bought slightly used in 95'. I had 272's in that 4g63 as well as many other dsm's since then and have never personally had an issue with valve float but have seen a few friends have issues. Back then the springs were pretty new with low miles. But in 2015 running original 23 year old springs is not for me.



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Edited by G (09/28/15 11:23 AM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217496 posted 09/28/15 04:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting prove_it:



Can't think of his name right now, but there was a machinist that started a thread showing all the spring rates and fact to support the claim that it's best to upgrade springs if the head is apart.




You clearly didn't look at any of the links I posted.



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prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217503 posted 09/28/15 05:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Nope, haven't in a while.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1217505 posted 09/28/15 05:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
You mad, Ryan? Oh, I forgot, you're one of those "everyone gets a trophy" kind of guys. I'll try and be nicer for now on, just for you



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