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Re: Stalling when engine-braking to a stop


MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177801 posted 06/27/14 11:36 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What maf are you using?



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

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LIV4PSI
dyslexic 1051
1501/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177804 posted 06/27/14 11:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting EfiniX:

Quoting EHmotorsports:

I am starting to wonder if the resistance in the harness is increasing just enough to cause this after long hot droves.




Well it is certainly more pronounced when I've been driving for a while. Just fine when for short drives.

Interesting theory...




The ECU makes the engine idle much higher during cold idle to help get it warm. I bet that is why it is worse during long drives.

My Subaru has this problem, unfortunately I just learned to live with it



-Craig
1501 Build Thread


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lancerglx
Newbie


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177812 posted 06/27/14 12:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
would it remedy the problem if a fiav/isc blockoff plate was used since you can keep the engine at a sightly higher rpm when idle without it going too high high when its cold.I have the same problem but its fine when cold hence the revs are slightly higher,,then when the revs drop and its at normal running temp it will stall when shifted into neutral.

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mitsuturbo
Banthony
555/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177813 posted 06/27/14 12:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting EfiniX:

New PVC valve.

This is all so strange...




A PVC valve? That is strange indeed. You may want to install a PCV valve instead. PolyVinylChloride and 4g63's don't go well together. Positive Crankcase Ventilation valves are somewhat beneficial, however.

Quoting MellowVR4:

What maf are you using?




This was asked previously. OP didn't answer.



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
97 CBR900RR
2012 Hyundai Veloster


Edited by mitsuturbo (06/27/14 12:34 PM)

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EfiniX
Member ++
543/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177815 posted 06/27/14 01:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
MAF is stock, I think. ECMLink is configured with a Base MAF Type of "2G MAF".

Here's a picture if it helps?



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177817 posted 06/27/14 01:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That is definitely not a stock MAF. Engine bay looks real nice dude.



1226/2000

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177818 posted 06/27/14 01:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
RECIRCULATE the BOV.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1638 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (199.96.227.1) | Report this post to a Moderator

prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
1284/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177820 posted 06/27/14 01:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
He has another thread discussing his issues with his recirc, and the resolution for it. It's set-up right.

Not a stock GVR4 MAF, but a 2G. Pull it off and check for the honey combs, no combs makes for much needed MAF comp.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy

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EfiniX
Member ++
543/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177827 posted 06/27/14 03:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've actually done a good bit of work on the MAFComp already and it's operating right where I'd like it to at normal RPM's. I'll pay more attention to it at idle.

I'll have an update tonight for sure. I've got an hour drive after I finish work today, and I'm sure it will present me with a stall opportunity. Even if it doesn't die, I can see if the dip has improved with my clamp adjustments.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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mitsuturbo
Banthony
555/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177829 posted 06/27/14 03:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting prove_it:

He has another thread discussing his issues with his recirc, and the resolution for it. It's set-up right.






VTA with a draw thru maf is not "set up right" regardless of any electronic compensation.


BTW, what is the Coasting FC offset set at?



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
97 CBR900RR
2012 Hyundai Veloster


Edited by mitsuturbo (06/27/14 03:23 PM)

Posts: 3535 | From: Near Seattle, Washington | Member Since: 06/02/08 | IP: (50.47.84.90) | Report this post to a Moderator

prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
1284/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177831 posted 06/27/14 03:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I don't get where you think it's VTA. Pic from his BOV flutter thread:




#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy

Posts: 4201 | From: Sioux Falls, SD | Member Since: 07/04/08 | IP: (24.230.93.110) | Report this post to a Moderator

prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
1284/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177832 posted 06/27/14 03:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting EfiniX:

I've actually done a good bit of work on the MAFComp already and it's operating right where I'd like it to at normal RPM's. I'll pay more attention to it at idle.

I'll have an update tonight for sure. I've got an hour drive after I finish work today, and I'm sure it will present me with a stall opportunity. Even if it doesn't die, I can see if the dip has improved with my clamp adjustments.




What's your idle air per rev? Are you close to the .25 mark?



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy

Posts: 4201 | From: Sioux Falls, SD | Member Since: 07/04/08 | IP: (24.230.93.110) | Report this post to a Moderator

mitsuturbo
Banthony
555/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177833 posted 06/27/14 03:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Aha. Of course that's the first thing we all suspect when someone claims their car is dying on decel. I didnt see any mention as to it having been recirculated.

Still, i wonder though. What is the Coasting FC offset at? I had to raise mine a bit, although i have a far different setup than this.



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
97 CBR900RR
2012 Hyundai Veloster

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EfiniX
Member ++
543/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177837 posted 06/27/14 04:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Idle at 950 w/ FC offset @60. AirflowPerRev @ idle is stable around .25, so that's looking ok.

I've got my fingers crossed that the clamp works out.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

Posts: 647 | From: portland, or | Member Since: 10/18/12 | IP: (97.115.120.139) | Report this post to a Moderator

prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
1284/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177839 posted 06/27/14 04:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Me too. Are you using the factory o2 sensor location, or do you have a WB simulating NB downstream? I know I have my WB downstream simulating NB and there is a latency there for the ecu to adjust trims.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy

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EHmotorsports
Capt Fabbin Stabbin
1865/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177846 posted 06/27/14 05:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
hes running NB in stock location and a separate WB down stream.



click

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4thStroke
Spence knows tools
786/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177852 posted 06/27/14 06:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've had this issue come and go.

I recently swapped back over to my ethanol map and made the needed changes to run my ID2000s and the issue went away. I have no idea what the issue was, but sometimes when you get away from the .25g/rev at idle midset, the cars drive better.

I know for the sake of calibration and showing the internet nitpickers, it looks good, but sometimes you just need to make the "incorrect" changes for them to run properly. I've seen maps that look like a 10 year old configured on big injectors before ECMLink would allow for the proper configuration, when everyone said you couldn't run 2000cc injectors. The car ran amazing, but the warriors online went ape shit and the tuner got unfairly blasted.

Try a higher coasting FC offset and see how it reacts.


Edited by 4thStroke (06/27/14 06:24 PM)

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EfiniX
Member ++
543/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177894 posted 06/27/14 10:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm wondering if this whole thing is the excuse I should use to convert to speed density...



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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4thStroke
Spence knows tools
786/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1177899 posted 06/27/14 10:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm on SD and the issue still comes and goes depending on the map I have loaded. Maybe with a new map, something will change and the issue will go away. It's worth a shot. Using the MAF adjustment to dial in the VE table wil help expedite things, its worth giving it a shot before you scrap the MAF altogether.

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EfiniX
Member ++
543/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1178115 posted 06/29/14 09:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting prove_it:

Quoting EfiniX:

I've actually done a good bit of work on the MAFComp already and it's operating right where I'd like it to at normal RPM's. I'll pay more attention to it at idle.

I'll have an update tonight for sure. I've got an hour drive after I finish work today, and I'm sure it will present me with a stall opportunity. Even if it doesn't die, I can see if the dip has improved with my clamp adjustments.




What's your idle air per rev? Are you close to the .25 mark?




So interestingly enough, I was checking my IdleAirPerRev on old WOT logs (at idle, of course). I decided to check after a typical drive and I found my ISC position was a touch high and my AFPR was a bit low.

ISC = 40-
AFPR = 0.21 gm/rev

I adjusted my BISS to get the ISC value up where it belonged, and I adjusted my MAFComp to get my AFPR up a bit.

Since doing that, I have had NO issues.

Before


After


At this point, I'm not willing to say it's solved, so I'll update this thread in a week or two. Anecdotal evidence so far is very positive, with no change to drivability and no stalls. The change the MAFComp is a bit extreme looking, but the behavior is much more like what you would expect a car to drive like.

I should also mention that as I was troubleshooting, I would undo changes that didn't work, such as upping the FC Coasting Offset (which is back to it's original value of 60).

Fingers crossed...



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)


Edited by EfiniX (06/29/14 09:08 PM)

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EfiniX
Member ++
543/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1178280 posted 06/30/14 03:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm willing to say I'm good to go. I came off the freeway on my way to a client today and stopped at the bottom of a hill that always causes my car grief. No problems whatsoever. It dropped like a rock to 1100 RPM's and sat there until I was at a complete stop, when it settled to 950 (where it belongs).

Woohoo!



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1178281 posted 06/30/14 03:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I know who's tuning my ride when the time comes



1226/2000

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EfiniX
Member ++
543/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1178288 posted 06/30/14 03:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
lol. Me?



but seriously, you'll need a dyno tune to get peak performance numbers. Evan put a great base tune on my car, but even he told me to put it on a dyno before dialing the turbo above 18psi.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

Posts: 647 | From: portland, or | Member Since: 10/18/12 | IP: (209.152.44.116) | Report this post to a Moderator

AllanL
Heal and Toe


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1178342 posted 06/30/14 08:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
so what it related to the idle air clamp?

good to know you got it sorted out...

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EfiniX
Member ++
543/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1178353 posted 06/30/14 10:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I have the clamp set at 60 (idle set at 950), but adjustments to the clamp yielded no noticeable improvements. Adjusting the MAFComp to bring the AFPR inline seemed to do the trick.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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