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Re: BoV suggestions (flutter dump w/ stock BOV)


strokin4dr
fighting them with a large needle
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220184 posted 11/12/15 09:16 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You're not getting it.
The way you have the new nipple connected is defeating the purpose of the mod.

If you were to have a solenoid inline that would close off the boost source to this new nipple (when positive pressure), then the bov would be able to hold more boost than stock. The reason for the solenoid would be for quick release operation. Yes... I know, yours is set up for quick release because it is basically a stock setup. You just moved the boost source from the bottom port to a new external nipple; nothing else. The solenoid would allow for same quick operation you have now, but would also allow it to hold high boost.
I boost leak tested my modded valve with an open boost reference to the new nipple and it leaks at 21 psi, just like when it was stock. BLT with new nipple to atmosphere (same thing you would see with a solenoid when there is positive pressure being made) and it holds 40 psi during the test. Test your setup. Guarantee your valve cracks open before 25 psi.

There is a reason Dejon included an inline valve with their modded setup if you wanted the best of both worlds.

Not trying to dis your setup, but I don't want to see misinformation spread on the board. If it works for you, great! But so would a stock bov the way it's set up now.



Quoting EfiniX:

As stated earlier, from the Dodge Garage instructions...


"A quick tip because this has come up already: The upper part of the B.O.V. MUST AT ALL TIMES be connected to a vacuum/boost source behind the throttle body that has full engine vacuum when the engine is at idle. The new port you just added MUST be hooked to the turbo's outlet barb or somewhere in the intercooling tubing for the BOV to work correctly in fast release mode. Or you could just leave the port open to outside air but you loose the fast release feature which is fun for scaring the hell out of honda drivers ;-) "

Stock control = stock location
New barb = as close to the turbo outlet as you can get



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tektic
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220188 posted 11/12/15 09:33 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I am getting it. It is undrivable with the mod and no solenoid. This is why I'm asking about alternative hookups.

So the solenoid is presure activated over atmosphere?

Posts: 1499 | From: ronkonkoma, ny | Member Since: 12/19/12 | IP: (172.56.29.137) | Report this post to a Moderator

strokin4dr
fighting them with a large needle
1280/2000
1135/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220189 posted 11/12/15 09:56 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I wasn't referring to you.

Yes, the solenoid could be used with an external pressure switch.
My plan was to use one of ecmlink's programable outputs to control it, but I ended up not doing it since it worked great with the nipple open to atmosphere. I'll try adding the solenoid when my new turbo shows up to compare the difference and report back.



1908- sold and missed.
1280- 2.3, FP 35R, E85, etc.
1135- 100% stock (sold)
'93 Mirage hatch- 4g63, AWD, etc (hoarding for build)

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220192 posted 11/12/15 10:12 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
FWIW, this mod resolved my flutter dump/compressor surge as-is. If it's just like stock, I couldn't account for why tis mod fixed my problem. Not saying you're wrong, just relaying my experience.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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strokin4dr
fighting them with a large needle
1280/2000
1135/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220193 posted 11/12/15 10:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sounds like you had multiple issues going on perviously though. I'm glad it works for you, but I just didn't want others to think it's a "mod" when configured that way. I may have missed it but what is you boost pressure set at?



1908- sold and missed.
1280- 2.3, FP 35R, E85, etc.
1135- 100% stock (sold)
'93 Mirage hatch- 4g63, AWD, etc (hoarding for build)

Posts: 2767 | From: Savannah, GA | Member Since: 08/30/05 | IP: (161.38.221.114) | Report this post to a Moderator

EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220206 posted 11/12/15 12:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thank you for that. You actually got me looking at some options for retaining a quick-release while also achieving the benefits of the Dodge Mod. I believe a small pressure regulator inline on the new port (lower diaphragm) will get me just that. I can set it around a stock boost level (15psi) so that when I go past what the stock spring was built to hold, I've still got less pressure on the bottom of the diaphragm...

EDIT

Of course, I'll get surge if I can't switch back to manifold pressure or atmosphere... So enter the Dejon BOV kit, which no longer is sold it would seem. No matter. Doing some CSI-style enhancing on some installations, I've located the part number. It's a MAC valve 1111A-111 and can be found in their catalog under "small 3-way valves" -> "1100-series". The valve comes with a signal pressure setting of 20psi. Looking into how to adjust that now...

And another EDIT...

...or do I? It seems like a simple pressure regulator on the new BoV port should do the trick. I was thinking I might get surge because the pressure would be locked into the lower diaphragm chamber, but in reality, the pressure regulator is open at rest, mean that I can limit pressure to a certain point, then release pressure when it drops back below the set limit.

I can test this easy enough. More to come...



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)


Edited by EfiniX (11/12/15 01:54 PM)

Posts: 647 | From: portland, or | Member Since: 10/18/12 | IP: (209.152.44.220) | Report this post to a Moderator

strokin4dr
fighting them with a large needle
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220222 posted 11/12/15 02:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
As long as the pressure is regulated to around stock boost levels, I don't see why that wouldn't work.



1908- sold and missed.
1280- 2.3, FP 35R, E85, etc.
1135- 100% stock (sold)
'93 Mirage hatch- 4g63, AWD, etc (hoarding for build)

Posts: 2767 | From: Savannah, GA | Member Since: 08/30/05 | IP: (161.38.221.114) | Report this post to a Moderator

prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220223 posted 11/12/15 03:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting strokin4dr:

I wasn't referring to you.

Yes, the solenoid could be used with an external pressure switch.
My plan was to use one of ecmlink's programable outputs to control it, but I ended up not doing it since it worked great with the nipple open to atmosphere. I'll try adding the solenoid when my new turbo shows up to compare the difference and report back.




I'm using link to control my BOV modded the same. Works perfect. Under 10psi and 3k it works as stock, anything over those parameters it holds just fine.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy

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EfiniX
Member ++
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220282 posted 11/13/15 10:54 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Here's my solution. We'll see how it works. Pressure set to around 15psi (too high?). Cost about $26 to build. I'll post my results here.

All parts from the Lowes close to where I work.

Kobalt mini air regulator (0-160psi) - $20.98
Item #: 221026 | Model #: SGY-AIR5JH

2x Brass hose barbs (3/16 in ID x 1/4 in MIP | 5mm x 8mm) - $3.99
Item #: 69301 | Model #: LFA96

And some pipe tape, of course. If you plan on doing this, you'll need an air compressor to set the pressure of the regulator.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)


Edited by EfiniX (11/13/15 02:31 PM)

Posts: 647 | From: portland, or | Member Since: 10/18/12 | IP: (209.152.44.220) | Report this post to a Moderator

EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220303 posted 11/13/15 03:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My initial observations:

Pulling the old feed from the turbo outlet barb off the lower (modded) BoV barb, I was met with an interesting surprise. The hose was split. Not much, but still... I cut the split part off, got the new regulator installed and off I went.

Normal driving felt fine. No real change. Maybe smoother? Certainly if I was leaking a bit of air under boost, it could have an impact on both spooling and my boost controller (which runs off the same source).

BoV operation for typical driving (maybe 5-15psi) was just fine. I only ran it hard once during my short drive because the turbo spooled up to 25psi (it's been set at 23), leading me to believe that the split hose might caused some issues that I'm just now seeing with my boost control. I'll look into that later when I can get a better data set and a log. As for the BoV, it's loud! This also leads me to believe that my BoV has not been staying completely shut under heavy boost and that my T3/T04 has been working a bit of overtime to get me to 23psi.

All very interesting...

more to come



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

Posts: 647 | From: portland, or | Member Since: 10/18/12 | IP: (209.152.45.54) | Report this post to a Moderator

89Patches
I <3 AMS


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220329 posted 11/13/15 10:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Can someone summarize what's going on? Like you're doing all this shit to a BOV? For what?

So lost.

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prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220343 posted 11/14/15 08:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The stock 1g diverter valve is a great valve. It has amazing response for it's age and is actually hard to beat. The problem is that the valve will open under boost around 18psi. There have been many mods to push it past that, but the price to pay is that the valve won't open fast at low load/boost and you'll get compressor surge. That's bad.

What hes doing is modding the valve to keep that fast opening response AND adding an actuator that will force the valve closed under high boost. It gives you the best of both worlds without having to spend 200 dollars on a loud valve that can get annoying.


Now in days, most people will swap to the EVO 9 metal divertor valve which can hold high boost and still open very fast. That requires a new flange though.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy

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SleepinGVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220355 posted 11/14/15 11:20 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      


Top side port - tee'd into a vacuum source on the top port on BOV.

Bottom side port - goes to the new port at the bottom of BOV flange.

Front port - goes to port on ic piping as close to the compressor cover as I could get.

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220357 posted 11/14/15 11:40 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The thing that concerned me about the Mac valve was that the stated pilot pressure is 20-150 psi. Even if it's adjustable, I would think that you would have to crush your BoV to prevent the valve from opening under boost.

I mean I'm reading the valve diagram correctly, right?



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

Posts: 647 | From: portland, or | Member Since: 10/18/12 | IP: (172.56.42.228) | Report this post to a Moderator

EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220516 posted 11/16/15 09:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Follow-up: Everything is working great. BoV functionality has been preserved without the risk of high-boost BoV blow-by.

Great discussion!



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

Posts: 647 | From: portland, or | Member Since: 10/18/12 | IP: (71.36.115.203) | Report this post to a Moderator


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