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Re: BoV suggestions (flutter dump w/ stock BOV)


EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1178118 posted 06/29/14 09:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Follow-up.

A few weeks in and no flutter + I'm holding boost through quick shifts. A+ mod/would recommend!




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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219104 posted 10/24/15 08:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm using a dodge garage modded Nov a d have a bit if a kink in the recirculation hose. At part throttle with anything over na vacuum it can start fluttering unless I'm in full boost or accelerating. It makes it very diffacult to keep a constant speed. Fluttering and bucks. Don't know what I can do to resolve this.

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219109 posted 10/24/15 10:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
wow, back from the dead! Old post.

Well your situation isn't my situation as I've got my BoV vented to atmosphere (SD conversion). I doubt the kink in your hose is an issue if it's behaving at high-boost, but fluttering at medium to low.

Is your BoV crushed? Most DSM stock BoV's that I've seen are. Considering how the Dodge-Mod BoV operates, this could certainly cause some issues. Also, did you confirm that all of your airflow points are clear and flowing properly? I know if your external boost reference port is tapped to far in, it will obstruct the airflow, which could potentially cause the issue you are describing. Finally, where is your external boost pressure line connected to? I've got mine tapped right into the turbo outlet for quick release.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)


Edited by EfiniX (10/24/15 10:26 PM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219118 posted 10/25/15 01:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had the same problem with my HKS and i'm running SD as well. I had too many things hooked up to my vacuum block. I disconnected the bov and hooked up directly to my intake mani and problem solved. No part accel or decel flutter, bucking etc............



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219127 posted 10/25/15 10:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
currently it is run directly to the vacuum port on the intake. My waste gate is connected to my turbo with a mbc in between.

The valve is not crushed. I'm fairly certain I performed the mod correctly. I will however take a look at the external port for signs of obstruction.

It does seem to be open during idle thought. I don't really know what that's telling me.

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219132 posted 10/25/15 11:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
There's your problem. The hose needs to be connected up somewhere between the BoV and the turbo outlet. The closer to the turbo outlet the better. Best option is to do what I did and drill a hole in your turbo outlet, tap it, and install a nipple to hook the hose to.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219133 posted 10/25/15 02:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Seriously? So where's the waste gate suppose to connect?

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219137 posted 10/25/15 05:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
T'ed right off the new port. I actually used this mod as an excuse to move my wastegate line off the intake manifold.




RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219146 posted 10/25/15 10:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So, just so I get this right in my head... The original port on the bov goes to the t connected to the nipple I taped into the compressor cover. And the tapped nipple in the bov stays open to air.

What signal boost or vacuum opens the valve? How does it know the throttle plate is closed if it can't see the pressure in the intake manifold?

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EHmotorsports
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219149 posted 10/26/15 12:23 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
His BOV is plumed to the port behind the throttle plate. The tapped nipple is vented to atmosphere.

If it is not that way any longer I will be having some questions for him tomorrow when I see the car.



click


Edited by EHmotorsports (10/26/15 12:24 AM)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219154 posted 10/26/15 07:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That makes more sense to me, and it is how mine is currently set up.

I am seeing people suggest plumbing the new added port to either port 3 on the the throttle body or to the fpr and adjust for throttle position like nos control settings.

Anyone experimented with this?

Edit: what about a t after the boost controler. That way its slightly less pressure then it would see in the ic pipe?


Edited by tektic (10/26/15 07:32 AM)

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219171 posted 10/26/15 11:43 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting EHmotorsports:

His BOV is plumed to the port behind the throttle plate. The tapped nipple is vented to atmosphere.

If it is not that way any longer I will be having some questions for him tomorrow when I see the car.




The BoV stock vac line goes to the TB, but the new vac line goes to the new barb on the turbo outlet, right? I thought we did this because it's what gets you the fast-release?

I guess I should have looked. Either way, listen to Evan. He did the work



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)


Edited by EfiniX (10/26/15 11:52 AM)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219175 posted 10/26/15 01:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The way your describing makes it operate just as stock.

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219177 posted 10/26/15 02:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
From the dodge mod instructions:

"A quick tip because this has come up already: The upper part of the B.O.V. MUST AT ALL TIMES be connected to a vacuum/boost source behind the throttle body that has full engine vacuum when the engine is at idle. The new port you just added MUST be hooked to the turbo's outlet barb or somewhere in the intercooling tubing for the BOV to work correctly in fast release mode. Or you could just leave the port open to outside air but you loose the fast release feature which is fun for scaring the hell out of honda drivers ;-) "

Stock control = stock location
New barb = as close to the turbo outlet as you can get

Or out to atmosphere, but if you are getting flutter dump, I'd imagine you would be looking for the quick-release implementation.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220072 posted 11/11/15 03:55 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
With port conected to T before mbc all surging stuttering and noise has gone away. Boost creep is also gon and car now only boosts to what the mbc is set for.

Has anyone tried connecting a T after their mbc? I'd like to experiment but already broke one T and would rather have a spare on hand before I atempt this myself. I think it would hold a little more boost and hopefully still open pretty fast. Just speculation though.

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220120 posted 11/11/15 02:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Here's how I've got mine setup. It's a little hard to get everything into the same frame, so I've color-coded the vac lines.

Yellow = direct to turbo pipe port
Red = MBC line
Green = Wastegate line
Purple = Dodge Mod BoV lower (new) port
White = BoV upper (stock) port to intake manifold



This setup works great @ 23psi

I'm not sure what you mean by "after" the MBC. Are you talking about putting a T between the MBC and the wastegate actuator?



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)


Edited by EfiniX (11/11/15 02:19 PM)

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SleepinGVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220123 posted 11/11/15 03:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Are you guys not using a mac pneumatic valve?



Sean

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220134 posted 11/11/15 04:38 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've got a Hallman MBC. I'm guessing your question about mac valves is a question about whether or not we're using a solenoid for boost control? Not sure how that factors into a discussion about BoV's, but that could just be my own lack of experience.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220142 posted 11/11/15 05:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have mine set up the same way now. I was talking about moving the T as you decribe. I guess I can just turn the knob a few more times to get back to 23psi, but I feel like the bov is opening under boost now. I'm not using any sort of solenoid for control of this port. I was hoping I could use the post boost control signal to keep it closed a little longer. I'll buy another T and try it out in a day or two. Just wondered if anyone tried this before.

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SleepinGVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220143 posted 11/11/15 05:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The dodge mod from Dejon came with a MAC pneumatic valve. Damn I've driven a GVR4 way to long.



Sean

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220147 posted 11/11/15 06:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
How was that connected and when did it actuate?

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SleepinGVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220149 posted 11/11/15 07:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've been running it for years now and I forget. I'll post a picture of it tomorrow when there is day light.



Sean

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220159 posted 11/11/15 09:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Having the boost source routed back to the new lower nipple is effectively defeating the purpose of modding the valve in the first place. It is essentially working exactly like the stock configuration without having the mentioned MAC valve in place.
I modded my stock valve the same way you did, but I just left the new nipple open to atmosphere. At cruising boost levels and part throttle, I do get some flutter sound, but at WOT (32 psi on a 20g) it holds rock solid and performs great.
I'm not worried about the partial throttle boost flutter. GN's and SyTy's have been boosting for years with no issue.

Quoting EfiniX:

Here's how I've got mine setup. It's a little hard to get everything into the same frame, so I've color-coded the vac lines.

Yellow = direct to turbo pipe port
Red = MBC line
Green = Wastegate line
Purple = Dodge Mod BoV lower (new) port
White = BoV upper (stock) port to intake manifold



This setup works great @ 23psi

I'm not sure what you mean by "after" the MBC. Are you talking about putting a T between the MBC and the wastegate actuator?





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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220169 posted 11/12/15 12:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
As stated earlier, from the Dodge Garage instructions...


"A quick tip because this has come up already: The upper part of the B.O.V. MUST AT ALL TIMES be connected to a vacuum/boost source behind the throttle body that has full engine vacuum when the engine is at idle. The new port you just added MUST be hooked to the turbo's outlet barb or somewhere in the intercooling tubing for the BOV to work correctly in fast release mode. Or you could just leave the port open to outside air but you loose the fast release feature which is fun for scaring the hell out of honda drivers ;-) "

Stock control = stock location
New barb = as close to the turbo outlet as you can get



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1220172 posted 11/12/15 12:40 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Yes I'd like to see that set up. Hopefully I can copy it.

I had drivability issues. The noise was cool, I couldn't tollerate the stuttering and surging though.

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