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Clutch issue??? I am assuming...I am hoping...


manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150706 posted 12/03/13 10:24 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hey guys,
I have been driving 504 around after picking her up this weekend, and am trying to figure out the clutch issue. I know there are a lot of possibilities so let me get down to it.

Symptoms include:
Clutch pedal engagement at or within an inch or two of the floor
Rough downshifts to second gear, Upshifts are no problem, however it wants to get notchy and grind on the way down. (no other gears have this problem)
hit or miss engagement of Reverse

Car has had an OEM clutch within the last 4,000 miles and the P.O. was an older gentleman so I don't think that the clutch is blown out yet...

My thoughts:
Check if the pedal has been adjusted or not
Check out the interior side of the master cylinder for leaks
Check the Slave cylinder for leaks
Check how much engagement I am getting from the clutch fork pivot. (does anyone have a measurable value for that???)

Solutions:
Adjust the pedal if I can
Clutch master
Clutch Slave
Rebuild petal assembly from JNZ
Stainless clutch line
Longer rod
Replace the Clutch fork

Any other thoughts would be very helpful, and trust me I did a bunch of searching and didn't find anything that mirrored my symptoms very well.
Thanks in advance!!!
-Manik

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mitsuturbo
Banthony
555/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150708 posted 12/03/13 10:30 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Maybe this is related to your other tech post and your clutch has tossed some material off the disc, thus becoming grossly out of balance. Or worse... a pressure plate bolt (or more than one) has come loose. I've seen threads break loose on fidanza flywheels and cause nasty vibrations as well as (obviously) clutch issues.

Just a thought.



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
97 CBR900RR
2012 Hyundai Veloster


Edited by mitsuturbo (12/03/13 10:48 AM)

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150714 posted 12/03/13 10:58 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That is a great point. Like I said, I will be doing some checking this afternoon when I can finally get her into my Garage... hopefully this will shed some light on the situation...I would be very surprised if a clutch kit on a bone stock car with <4K miles on it had grenaded, although stranger things have happened. The thing that makes me think that this is isolated from the vibration is the fact that the clutch engagement when taking off from a stop is literally an inch or so from the floor.

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150764 posted 12/03/13 04:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      



Well that certainly looks like a problem...

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150766 posted 12/03/13 04:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Is the boot wet? It's hard to tell. How much adjustment is left in the push rod?



820/1000
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1813/2000-SOLD

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150767 posted 12/03/13 04:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      

I didn't have much time to look at it since I was just on my lunch break. I will be adjusting it out when I get home.

Yes, the boot appeared to be wet. I am going to go ahead and get a new Master ASAP. I still have to check out the slave cyl when I get home.

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150768 posted 12/03/13 04:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well, hopefully you don't have to do a pedal rebuild. I'd rather pull the motor then do that again.



820/1000
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1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150779 posted 12/03/13 06:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So I just looked and the Pedal is adjusted all the way out, upon closer inspection I noticed that the clutch master does not appear to be leaking and the slave does not appear to be leaking. The pedal does not feel loose, or anything weird...I am a little more stumped than when i started now...I know that it had a new clutch kit 3K ago, and that 20k ago, it got a new clutch master and slave. I suppose they could have gone out. Any other suggestions from anyone??? Anyone had any experience or good results from any specific product?

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DynastyLCD
Dissapointing Member
73/1000
881/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150783 posted 12/03/13 06:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Make sure all the bolts holding the transmission to the block are tight. Make sure the bolt that goes through the back of the block into the transmission is there... And it's tight.

I would also check the clutch pedal assembly for play. Don't let Brett scare you, it sucks but it's not that bad. Just don't be scared to take things apart.



- Phil

'92 Galant VR4 - 881/1000 - 2.0/FPgreen daily
'92 Eagle Talon TSi - 2.3/3052/1600's/killmode.
'05 Honda TRX450r - pack-a-punched woods weapon
You call down the thunder, and i'll reap the whirlwind.

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150784 posted 12/03/13 07:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Check fluid level in transmission?

Sounds like clutch line may need to be bled. If its all new perhaps the bleed was done improperly.

All the difficulty shifting would revolve around this.



1226/2000

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150786 posted 12/03/13 07:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just bled the clutch fluid. Is the line known to go bad? Maybe the line is over-stretching and this is causing not enough fluid volume to the slave cylinder....? After bleeding it, the second gear downshift and revers felt a tad better, but not where it should be. second was still notchy. Hmmmm...

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EfiniX
Member ++
543/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150793 posted 12/03/13 07:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My shifting got much better after I drained out the tranny fluid the last owner put in (Redline judging by the color) and replaced it with Mitsubishi diaqueen. The old fluid came out with a telltale synchro shimer, so I know I'm going to be due for a rebuild when it comes time to get a new clutch.

Like seriously, you wouldn't believe how much better my shifting got after that fluid change. I also put in Redline Heavy in the diff and transfer case (if memory serves).

If you do get curious about this route, do a search to answer your questions about transmission fluid selection. It's almost a religious discussion, with people swearing by different brands and combinations of different fluids and the right ratios for those combinations, etc....



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
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EHmotorsports
Capt Fabbin Stabbin
1865/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150794 posted 12/03/13 07:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting manikbastrd:

I just bled the clutch fluid. Is the line known to go bad? Maybe the line is over-stretching and this is causing not enough fluid volume to the slave cylinder....? After bleeding it, the second gear downshift and revers felt a tad better, but not where it should be. second was still notchy. Hmmmm...




If you can have a friend inspect how far the clutch fork is traveling when the clutch is pressed in.

from RRE's website
click link to the site



click


Edited by EHmotorsports (12/03/13 07:38 PM)

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150798 posted 12/03/13 07:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The clutch fork on the outside portion of the transmission is not hitting the edge of the bell housing, I didn't feel any slop in the pedal assembly, but I know that they can get worse and worse as time goes on, so I will do a more thorough examination of the pedal assembly. Like i previously stated, I bled the clutch and had a little improvement, however it actually got worse again after driving it around the block. I plan to look at it a little more thoroughly...gahhh this is so annoying...brings back memories of my old galant.

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150801 posted 12/03/13 07:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting EHmotorsports:


If you can have a friend inspect how far the clutch fork is traveling when the clutch is pressed in.

from RRE's website
click link to the site





If I am reading RRE's tech article correctly, is it recommending shimming the point between the clutch slave rod and the clutch fork? I am going to go back and look to see where it is sitting when there is no clutch pressure applied. On a second note, I noticed that the fluid was pretty gross when changing it out. I am thinking that perhaps the rubber clutch line is starting to give out and that maybe I should try a stainless line instead.

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150802 posted 12/03/13 07:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting EfiniX:

My shifting got much better after I drained out the tranny fluid the last owner put in (Redline judging by the color) and replaced it with Mitsubishi diaqueen. The old fluid came out with a telltale synchro shimer, so I know I'm going to be due for a rebuild when it comes time to get a new clutch.

Like seriously, you wouldn't believe how much better my shifting got after that fluid change. I also put in Redline Heavy in the diff and transfer case (if memory serves).

If you do get curious about this route, do a search to answer your questions about transmission fluid selection. It's almost a religious discussion, with people swearing by different brands and combinations of different fluids and the right ratios for those combinations, etc....




Unfortunately, the guy had it serviced at a shop that put GL-5 in it I believe...Not excited about that, but I will be replacing it soon enough.

When you check for slop in the pedal does it matter if you are adjusted in or out on the pedal adjuster???

Update.

I bled the Clutch a lot, put an entire bottle of fluid through it and was getting almost continuous bubbles coming through. I think I have a problem with one of the seals in the slave or something. The master doesn't appear to be leaking, and the slave didn't look like it either, however I think I have a problem somewhere. I think I will put a master and a slave in it as soon as I can get them just in case.

I ordered a stock Master Cylinder, but does anyone have a recommendation for the slave cylinder? They didn't have one for a july 1991 model according to Autozone, so I ordered a 1g Slave cyl...hopefully that is the smaller diameter model.

Anyone else got any good ideas???
Thanks in advance


Edited by manikbastrd (12/03/13 11:14 PM)

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paul j
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150892 posted 12/04/13 03:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Mine engaged very close to the floor and master & slave did not leak. Replaced slave and it went up to more normal engagement. Later replaced master for good measure. I now see my upper slave rubber hose is cracked and looking bad.



Paul J
#1551

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150925 posted 12/04/13 06:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Good to know...I ordered OEM Mitsu M/C and S/C as well as a stainless line to eliminate(hopefully) any source of bad Juju

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
JDM Unit
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150940 posted 12/04/13 07:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Order a speed bleeder for the slave. It makes bleeding virtually impossible to screw up.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

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paul j
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150967 posted 12/04/13 11:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Does the slave take a M10 speed bleeder like the brakes do per JNZ?



Paul J
#1551

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150982 posted 12/05/13 07:57 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The bleeder is a m10 wrench, and the nipple size I couldn't tell you, however it is definitely an m10 bleeder screw.

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1150995 posted 12/05/13 09:56 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting G:

Order a speed bleeder for the slave. It makes bleeding virtually impossible to screw up.




I picked up an Autozone hand pump bleeder if that's what you mean. Do you need to bench bleed the slave as well or just the master?

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mitsuturbo
Banthony
555/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1151035 posted 12/05/13 02:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I usually just crack the bleeder valve open, give it a few pumps, top off the reservoir, do it again, then let it sit there and basically gravity bleed for a bit. Shut the bleeder, top it off and call it good. I've never had to use a bleeder tool of any sort for the clutch. Maybe the tool you've got now will make it easier. I just never bothered because it wasn't necessary, even on 2g cars with the accumulator.

Oh, and i would suggest you get a DSM fluid reservoir. They're generally abundant in the junkyards. The stock ones on the VR4 are awful stubby little things.



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
97 CBR900RR
2012 Hyundai Veloster

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manikbastrd
A Negro's Savior


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1151066 posted 12/05/13 03:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks mitsuturbo,
I have a larger reservoir from my current part and I will be sure to switch over to the larger of the two. I am hoping that this solves a lot of my clutch issues.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help and advice. i will keep this post updated when I install everything.

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
JDM Unit
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1151098 posted 12/05/13 04:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
No, i mean one of these >> click

Or

One of these in ss >> click


Quoting manikbastrd:

Quoting G:

Order a speed bleeder for the slave. It makes bleeding virtually impossible to screw up.




I picked up an Autozone hand pump bleeder if that's what you mean. Do you need to bench bleed the slave as well or just the master?





www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

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