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Still having Clutch issues...

manikbastrd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
660
So, for those of you who don't know me/my car, I have jumped through almost every hoop to fix my clutch issues. The clutch disengages wayyyyy too close to the floor and it bugs the crap out of me...Consequently it's also a good way to destroy synchros. So, I have replaced all of the easier to replace components in my search for the perfect clutch pedal.
I have replaced:
-OEM Mitsubishi Slave Cyl (gold anodized)
-OEM Mitsubishi Master Cyl
-stainless clutch line from the master to slave
-Properly bled the clutch system
-New Comp STG3 Clutch kit
-Properly stepped my flywheel
-Shimmed the Pivot ball to be where Jack's recommends

The only thing that is left as a potential cause is my pedal assembly. As far as that goes, what are my options? I know I can pull it and rebuild it and either weld it or not weld it. I can also pull it and send it out. I am not a very good welder, so I won't be welding it myself. I think it would probably be best to send it out to have it professionally done. What do you guys think? Any other recommendations as to fixing my clutch issues???

Thanks in advance!
 

cupajoe

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
343
Location
Lake Mary, FL
Have you checked to see if the pedal assembly is worn? Push the clutch in and let it rise on it own, then grab it with your hand and pull on it. Does it move more? If so you'll need to rebuilt it, I'd say order all the parts from JZN and rebuilt it yourself, its easy enough. If you want to make is last longer then the 100k+ miles it did the first time throw some welds on it.
 

tektic

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,497
Location
ronkonkoma, ny
I'm right there with you bro. I'm in the carpet with my clutch an the only reason it works at all is the 3kgt slave moved it up a bit. Noow its super heavy too.
 

G

Staff member
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
8,896
Location
zompton
Post a pic of the master adjustment rod and the location of the jamb nut.
 

manikbastrd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
660
The master rod is literally on the last threads. I don't feel any slop right now, but I guess I need to move it in and then feel for slop. sorry for the crappy photo its hard to take a picture with my I-potato while cramped under the dash...

 
Last edited:

G

Staff member
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
8,896
Location
zompton
You sure it's all the way out? They like to rotate out of adjustment when driving if the nut is not tight.
 

manikbastrd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
660
Quoting G:
You sure it's all the way out? They like to rotate out of adjustment when driving if the nut is not tight.



I'm literally at the end of the post...but I feel like I shouldn't have to be that close to the end just to get some pedal right? Shouldn't I be maybe like halfway down or something? Otherwise, what is the point of having an adjuster on the rod at all???
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Chitown
I noticed when replacing my master with a oem from jnz. That when I took out my old one it was almost all the way out and I thought it was strange. But then I opened the box to the new one and it to was just about all the way out. I installed and actually had to turn it out alittle more too lol. Anyway only my galant is this way, all my other mitsu's are closer to half and using jack's trans suggestion have been adjusted his way. The galant no such luck, it doesn't seem to hit the block off point weird huh!? I read somewhere that someone said to extend the rod or like a 3G eclipse one is longer or something. Maybe the shimmed pivot ball is why yours is so far. How does the fork look in the window? Closer to middle or more to d side?
 
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cupajoe

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
343
Location
Lake Mary, FL
I would adjust in it a bit and check for slop. If no slop, bleed it in that config where there is atleast a .25-.50" threat left. Then once its bled re-adjust it out.
 

tektic

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,497
Location
ronkonkoma, ny
These are all things I know he as well as I have done to death.

When does the conversion shift to aftermarket performance parts that may actually have a chance to work properly with extra heavy clutches?
 

G

Staff member
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
8,896
Location
zompton
That looks like that's as far as it's going to go. But the nut is supposed to be snug against the fork to keep the rod from adjusting.
 

manikbastrd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
660
Quoting Mitsu_tuner7:
I noticed when replacing my master with a oem from jnz. That when I took out my old one it was almost all the way out and I thought it was strange. But then I opened the box to the new one and it to was just about all the way out. I installed and actually had to turn it out alittle more too lol. Anyway only my galant is this way, all my other mitsu's are closer to half and using jack's trans suggestion have been adjusted his way. The galant no such luck, it doesn't seem to hit the block off point weird huh!? I read somewhere that someone said to extend the rod or like a 3G eclipse one is longer or something. Maybe the shimmed pivot ball is why yours is so far. How does the fork look in the window? Closer to middle or more to d side?



shimming the pivot ball is the exact opposite actually. If anything it should raise the friction point for the pedal. The fork is closer to the drivers side.
 

manikbastrd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
660
Quoting cupajoe:
I would adjust in it a bit and check for slop. If no slop, bleed it in that config where there is atleast a .25-.50" threat left. Then once its bled re-adjust it out.



I am going to do this. Thanks!
 

tektic

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Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,497
Location
ronkonkoma, ny
I'm considering a 3/4" master cylinder or better yet a longer stroke 5/8". Whats the stock stroke?

Think of it this way:
Larger bore master = less travel to actuate, less pressure.
Smaller bore master = more travel, more pressure.
By pressure, I mean the multiplication of effort.
 
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manikbastrd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
660
I understand the dynamics of the fluid based system, but using the stock parts, it makes no sense that my clutch pedal is so low when engaging and disengaging. I know there is a member here who used a 3KGT slave and had some marginal improvement...Don't know if that is what I want to try next or not.
 

tektic

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,497
Location
ronkonkoma, ny
That was me.

With the 3kgt slave It improved from only working when preloaded to working just off the floor as you describe,at the cost of a heaver pedal.

If anything in my car was stock I would be satisfied saying the stock hydrolic adjustments should work and keep trying to solve the issue. That's just not the case. With the hours of diagnostics and repair I have already wasted I only got this far. I'd rather have something that works better to start with. Like a master with a longer stroke, so I wasn't limited to how high I could adjust the pedal without worrying about blocking the return valve. That's the only issue I have right now. If I could choke up another 1/4" on the master adjustment Everything would be fine. I would get the throw I need and engagement would be off the floor. It is set currently set a half turn before closing out the valve in the master and the travel required to disengage my south bend clutch is just not there.
 

manikbastrd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
660
Ahhhh gotcha. I almost want to try going back to stock clutch just to see if that truly does fix the issue. That is not likely to happen though, so for now I will assume my pedal is probably the issue and try having it rebuilt/rewelded.
 

tektic

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,497
Location
ronkonkoma, ny
I had a heated argument about my pedal assembly and position after welding. This is why my clutch may still just need to be bled more...

As far as I can tell (this could be wrong) if you press the pedal and the CMC rod moves with no slack or play there is no issue with the assembly. My arm is slightly advanced in it's stroke compared to the pedal. My adjustment point on my master rod is not at the end threads like most. It is 3/16" back from the tip. It does however approach the firewall the entire time the clutch pedal is thrown. Someone told me the opposite originally but if you do weld your pedal assembly do so in the full open position with the helper springs in place.

If there is play there are three possible causes for this play.
1.Crack in one of the levers causing flex under pressure (weld)
2.Clevis pin attaching the CMC rod to pedal (if hole is oblong drill bigger an make a bushing for the clevis)
3.Upper joint where the secondary arm joins rod connected to primary clutch lever (realign in fully open position and weld)

I'm not using a stock master cylinder it's an Exceedy. I have seen multiple threads that say the rebuilt master are mechanically different and do not have the same capacity of fluid movement. I just ordered a BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0728847 (might be Nabco or Sayco) as people here said there were no issues with theirs Sayco. I'm going to bench beed and install it rather than remove bleed and reinstall the one I have now. For $20 I will be able to say I have explored all options.

I searched the best I could but was not able to locate the stock stroke of our 5/8 bore CMC.
 

manikbastrd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
660
Yeah, I remember that argument I think I read the whole thing and maybe even posted in it. I am hoping that I (or you) can figure this whole thing out. I don't want to kill my synchros, and I want my clutch pedal to be off of the floor. I am at a loss as to what else we can do. Hopefully we can collectively come up with a fix. I am going to spend some time this afternoon or tomorrow, carefully examining my clutch system and rebleeding it. Thanks for all the help Tektic
 
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