Opinions On My Aggressive Wheel Plan: Enkei RPF1 17x9 +45 Rear & 17x8 +45 Front

[Olson]

I hate it when wop goes on a rampage but hes right. Look at all the Nat guys in Auto-x they run proper sized tired with big rims and big tires. if you want stiff side walls do some research on the tire that has a stiff side wall because each brand is different.

wops right your wrong leave it alone , oh ya stretch/ hella flush is gay as f*** and serves no purpose.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting Olson:
oh ya stretch/ hella flush is gay as f*** and serves no purpose.



A purpose: click

Just like with everything in life, for every person who thinks "stretch/ hella flush is gay as f*** and serves no purpose" there is someone who thinks the opposite. They may not be able to make a strong case that tire stretch serves any purpose, but none the less it's a case I suppose. Now, if you think stretch/hella flush is gay as f***, and you are one of the individuals commenting largely just to say you think it's gay as f***...then by default IMO that makes you gay as f***. Mainly because though entitled to your opinion, simply saying something is gay is f*** makes you sound ignorant, arrogant and really means you contributed nothing to the thread other than getting your post count up. I'm not even sure how this turned into a hella flush discussion in the first place? What is most amusing to me is everyone here agrees dc_style's car looks good. So I guess that means most hella flush haters all don't think stretch is entirely gay, only gay up to a certain point. That in itself, is as laughable as it is ironic. Bottom line, being hella flush and stretching your tires serves almost zero purpose performance wise. I don't think anyone needs to point that out anymore. This is done for cosmetic reasons for the most part, and if you think it looks gay, cool...simply say it's not for you and move on. But hell, this is the internet I suppose, so if ranting about how gay something is gets your rocks off then type away...

 

[Olson]

oh ya stretch/ hella flush is gay as f*** and serves no purpose.

guess you wanted to get that off of you chest. If you want a rim to fit you car do it the right way. easy

 

[H05TYL]

Quoting turbowop:
Quoting fuel:
mildly stretched tyres do indeed help with stiffening up the sidewall of a tyre and prevents the tyre rolling over on itself in heavy cornering. Have close look at F1 and most race cars - you will indeed find that the rim width is wider than the tyre bead itself and most sidewalls do end up having a little 'stretch'.



Go put some chalk marks on the side of a good set of tires that aren't stretched and tell me how much they "roll over on themselves". A good tire with a stiff sidewall won't have this issue.





Hoosier R6's, 265/35 on 9.5" and 295/30 on 10.5" on a GTR

Here's that front tyre at rest:

and here's a pile of the wheels/tyres used by the Cyber Evo at world time attack last year, not much stretch, but the rim is definitely wider than the tread.

 

[turbowop]

And?

Of course there is going to be some sidewall deflection. I don't see those Hoosiers rolling the sidewalls over and off the rim or even hurting performance. Are you trying to say that a stretched tire at rest would perform better under the same cornering force?

And those other tires look fine. I've never argued that the tires need to be wider than the rim, just that these super stretched tires are going overboard.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting turbowop:
Are you trying to say that a stretched tire at rest would perform better under the same cornering force?



I suspect not, however...

Maybe it would not perform better cornering, but in other applications it may perform better. It appears that in drifting, a super stretched tire actually does perform better for that type of competition. As for cornering like the GTR pictured above, who knows? It would be hard to say either way without some actual evidence or testing. Perhaps this has been done, but I'm not aware of it. Personally, I find it hard to believe a super stretched tire would perform as well cornering. This is simply due to the fact a super stretched tire's more narrow contact patch will always be smaller than that of a wider properly fitting tire when compared on the same wheel. Simply, a tire that is 9 inches wide on a 9 inch wide wheel has more surface area than a 8 inch wide tire stretched onto the same 9 inch wide wheel. IMO the added benefit of a more rigid sidewall will never outweigh the performance benefits of a larger contact patch. More surface area means more grip, and nobody can argue that. That being said, I guess you would have to try both on say, a skid pad perhaps, to really say definitively. The added sidewall rigidity that a slight tire stretch provides is without a doubt beneficial though. The amount of stretch that is beneficial is really what could be debated. I believe the true answer would be to find the amount of stretch that allows for the most rigid sidewall, while at the same time running the widest tire you can to give you the largest contact patch possible. My .02/

 

[kartorium]

Wow! This thread turned fun!

Different setups give different results. The bottom line is that claiming you need to stretch tires a lot to create a stiff sidewall is bullshit. That applied 40 years ago, not now. The car will always have more grip and pull more G's with a tire that's within the recommended range of a rim width. However, sometimes a car won't actually handle well with a tire that wide cause the breakaway to loss of traction becomes so quick and violent. Some of these japanese tuners with the GTR and Cyber example have simply tuned the car via their tire selection to transition in a smoother fashion creating the desired balance. Running a tire on the high side of it's recommended rim width seems to be generally accepted as a great option for performance. I would not consider that a stretch, which is what most of the fastest teams are doing. I think part of this tuning is a result of changing sidewall deflection, but I don't think their overall goal is "sh*t, we need to make this sidewall stiffer, lets stretch it hella!" I think race tires generally have stiff enough sidewalls as is.

Different scenarios will have different results though. Generally if you're auto-xing you can achieve fast lap times by simply jamming as wide of a tire on the rim as possible. Will it do that time with some skinny ass bullshit stretched tire? No. Will you get even faster times by putting that same wide tire on an even wider rim? Probably. Then you say "See, race teams are doing it!" No they are not, and if so they would be faster if they didn't. Trying to help justify putting a 205 on a 9" by showing an example of a 265 on a 9.5" wheel is not helping the "stretch" argument. This happens all to often, people take a concept from racing, push it to the extreme and then claim it makes the car faster. Wrong.

Just my understanding. You don't need to try to justify a stretch to us. It's purely a visual thing and not performance oriented, that's fine, but don't try to justify like it actually is. Oh, and yes, stretch does work well in drifting..... cause the hole point is controlled loss of traction! The last thing I want from the front tires of my galant is loss of traction so I don't run 205's.

Bottom line is, for the weight of our cars a 205 is not enough contact patch. My car handles well with 255's, I never have problems with the tire rolling over, and the amount of grip it creates will give you a boner. Not to mention a lot of peeps (myself included) love it's stance with the current setup.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting kartorium :
Different setups give different results.


I agree, which is why I think a combination of low to mild sidewall stretch and wide tire would yield the best handling results. I believe this is all H05TYL was attempting to point out in his post.



Quoting kartorium :
The bottom line is that claiming you need to stretch tires a lot to create a stiff sidewall is bullshit.


I'm not sure anyone claimed this, but it is in fact true that a stretched sidewall is more rigid.



Quoting kartorium :
However, sometimes a car won't actually handle well with a tire that wide cause the breakaway to loss of traction becomes so quick and violent.


Uhhh...What??? Can you explain what you mean here?



Quoting kartorium :
Then you say "See, race teams are doing it!" No they are not, and if so they would be faster if they didn't.


I'm not sure I'd ever make the claim I know better than an experienced race team. If they say the best fuel for their car is Cambodian breast milk, I'll go ahead and make the assumption they know what they're talking about.



Quoting kartorium :
You don't need to try to justify a stretch to us. It's purely a visual thing and not performance oriented, that's fine, but don't try to justify like it actually is.


Lets not confuse mild sidewall "deflecting" (as you put it) with the hella stretch seen on some drift cars and Vdubs. It's obvious to everyone that extreme stretch does nothing for handling performance outside of drifting, and I think that's exactly what's being said here. Although I do believe that it's not coincidence that most race cars, or just simply cars geared toward handling well in general, exhibit some degree of sidewall stretch. I also believe it contributes to slightly better handling performance, but that can't be substantiated by anything, and is purely my assumption.

 

[slugsgomoo]

Quoting GSTwithPSI:
Quoting Olson:
oh ya stretch/ hella flush is gay as f*** and serves no purpose.



A purpose: click

Just like with everything in life, for every person who thinks "stretch/ hella flush is gay as f*** and serves no purpose" there is someone who thinks the opposite. They may not be able to make a strong case that tire stretch serves any purpose, but none the less it's a case I suppose. Now, if you think stretch/hella flush is gay as f***, and you are one of the individuals commenting largely just to say you think it's gay as f***...then by default IMO that makes you gay as f***. Mainly because though entitled to your opinion, simply saying something is gay is f*** makes you sound ignorant, arrogant and really means you contributed nothing to the thread other than getting your post count up. I'm not even sure how this turned into a hella flush discussion in the first place? What is most amusing to me is everyone here agrees dc_style's car looks good. So I guess that means most hella flush haters all don't think stretch is entirely gay, only gay up to a certain point. That in itself, is as laughable as it is ironic. Bottom line, being hella flush and stretching your tires serves almost zero purpose performance wise. I don't think anyone needs to point that out anymore. This is done for cosmetic reasons for the most part, and if you think it looks gay, cool...simply say it's not for you and move on. But hell, this is the internet I suppose, so if ranting about how gay something is gets your rocks off then type away...



The purpose is to reduce grip to make drifting easier? bravo. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif

As for the bumper debate, give me a f***ing break, the NHTSA hasn't required a 5mph bumper since 1994, they've been 3mph (and now 2mph) bumpers since then. As it turns out, the costs of the urethane and repainting are no lower than they are without the big metal crash bar, and it doesn't save the car. I'd guess that the nice aluminum front mount is a far better bumper than that steel piece of sh*t anyway.

I haven't had one on my cars since 06, but I don't crash into sh*t even if it were an issue.

I think there's a difference between a properly sized slick that's a couple MM off the wheel width, and a tire that is 3" narrower than the wheel. Otherwise, why not get top fuel to stop running those ridiculously over-width tires, they're unnecessary. Get some 205's and call it good!

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting slugsgomoo :
The purpose is to reduce grip to make drifting easier? bravo.



It's only a purpose, not necessarily the purpose. I suppose if you are trying to win the Formula Drift Championship Series it would matter. In almost all other aspects of driving besides looking hella flush, certainly not.

 

[dc_style]

original post topic: can wheels fit? yes it can be done, i put my existing tires on wheels and made it work, which entailed a slight stretch.

debate: stretched tires and jdm bumper, no one is drifting here. i have personally experienced someone bump into my jdm bumper parked on the street and destroying it completely while my stock one has held up in the same situation. to be honest i don't really think it really matters when it comes to government regulated standards. my point was, my setup was to make it look nice, so is throwing on a jdm bumper. sure you can say you did it for weight savings but come on.. i highly doubt that's why most of us have converted. i'm keeping my usdm because i just want to drive my car, and because based on my personal experience, i know it's held up for me. i don't think anyone even really mentioned crashing into anyone. i'm sure if you crash, the bumpers destroyed regardless. i'm sure someone on here has been backed into before or rear ended with their jdm bumpers and know what i'm talking about /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

wheel setup: i posted to show it can be done, obviously there is a better fitting tire for racing, drifting, autox, etc. will i be doing any of the following to really care? no... but it is better than factory and i like it. is my "stretch" dangerous? no.. i highly doubt it with the driving i'll be doing. was my goal ever strictly performance? no, again i want to just daily drive my car. i highly doubt anyone on our forum was every planning on running anything with stupid stretch. plus not everyone has the money immediately to be dropping money on the best correctly sized tires with stiff sidewall. i used what i had. relax everyone.

this is suppose to be a forum that's different than others... not honda-tech or 240sxforums where people get heated. everyone has their own taste when it comes to what they're using their car for. if you wanna race it, then post your setup and your experience with it. much of the knowledge on this forum has come from trial and error. quite honestly i don't see what the issue is here, not even sure if it's about my car. but i can assure you if it ever comes to the point where i want the most optimal setup i'll come to you guys for it. until then.. i will "daily drive" my setup and enjoy it the way i want it. it's all personal preference.. with that said ya'll... anyone else have experience with similar set ups? post pics and enlighten us! come on now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Nartanian]

You should post your setup here. I think it's a really good thread to get a basic idea of setups that work.

Lowered Rides Thread

 

[turbowop]

Quoting dc_style:
original my point was, my setup was to make it look nice, so is throwing on a jdm bumper. sure you can say you did it for weight savings but come on..



And my point was, you can't compare the two. JDM bumpers may be an aesthetics thing, but they don't hinder performance at all. If anything, they enhance it by dropping weight. Your stretched tire setup does hinder performance compared to a wider tire that's meant to go on such a wide wheel. If you already had the tires, so be it, but if you're dropping the cash to buy new coilovers and wheels, I'm not sure why you can't enhance your new setup with proper width tires.

I'm not trying to bust balls too much here. I only argue when people try to justify this stuff by comparing it to something completely unrelated. And even then, if anybody posts pics of their car with a stretched setup, you can bet I'll comment on it. Especially when the thread title is asking for opinions.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

"Hella flush" staggered 2G setup...

 

[Noobsauce]

I like the looks of the "hella flush" but it only fits certain cars if that's what your going for.

 

[turbowop]

Quoting GSTwithPSI:
"Hella flush" staggered 2G setup...

IMO, that car would look better with wheels that fit without so much negative rear camber in a non-staggered setup.

 

[ade]

stretched tires = aesthetics *i can say a 205 tire has less weight than 255 but imo that's a dumb argument, it works for drifting where u need less grip and a rigid sidewall for consistent direction transitions*

jdm bumper = aesthetics *it might be lighter but removing or replacing the rebar allows for a bit more flex through the chassis*

both imo are choices or options based on personal preferences

 

[Noobsauce]

I completely agree

 

[turbowop]

Quoting ade:


jdm bumper = aesthetics *it might be lighter but removing or replacing the rebar allows for a bit more flex through the chassis*




/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowrofl.gif Please keep talking out of your ass, that sh*t is funny.

 

[RedTwo]

Why does that eclipse have such tiny front wheels? Looks like bottle caps in those wheel wells.