Injectors being emo (maybe?)

Okay, so it's been getting annoying again, so I'm going to remove head-from-ass and properly fix this before it becomes expensive / totally undriveable instead of annoying.

This is my guy here? click

I am assuming I inspect for cracks or other signs of unhappiness. Should I test it w/ ohmmeter? Next suspect is ECU? I should pull and inspect it to make sure that it was indeed the ECU on which I KNOW my buddy's dad replaced the caps, and not one of the other Galants the former owner still has.

 

[atc250r]

Did you try replacing the CAS plug as I suggested? How about replacing the crappy stock injector plugs with some better ones?

John

 

Ah, this guy: http://members.shaw.ca/dsm.1000q/Engineprimer/1G/cas.htm

Quote:
Many owners have problems with their CAS right after washing their engine bay. This is because the rubber gaskets on the CAS housing can dry up over time, and allow water (or steam) inside the sensor. Once water gets in to the sensor it is usually wrecked. Without the CAS, the ECU does not know when to fire the injectors or plugs, and the engine can not run.



I thought I inspected it, but I will check it again tonight, just to be sure. Sounds like a winner...sorry I didn't check it more thoroughly sooner. That would explain why ECU would throw injector error code (although it'd be nicer if the damn thing would say "CAS"). Thanks for the advice!!! Resistor pack is getting checked next if NTF w/ CAS.

Since it works SOMETIMES (on a cold start), maybe it can be salvaged / repaired and resealed?

 

[atc250r]

Quoting atc250r:
Did you try replacing the CAS plug as I suggested? How about replacing the crappy stock injector plugs with some better ones?

John

 

[rgeier11]

I would bet ECU. Take it out and take close-up pics for us. There should be discoloration and burning on the board under the capacitors. I will bet money the ECU is bad.

 

Quoting atc250r:
Did you try replacing the CAS plug as I suggested? How about replacing the crappy stock injector plugs with some better ones?

John

Well, I looked at it, and I had put on dielectric grease on the contacts, so I did take a look at it, although under the plate below the plug, the gasket looked damp, so I will have to pop that thing out and look into the sensor housing for moisture. The prongs on the sensor end have some black on them, but it doesn't look out of order. I'll try to take pics of it tonight (and of ECU, though I won't have a ton of time to pull everything apart).

 

[atc250r]

The plug on mine looked OK from the outside. I think it was the 15 years of being bent as soon as they left the plug finally killed them. I thought I had an injector plug issue so I replaced all of them with brand new ones (soldered and heat shrunk) but the problem persisted. Once I rebuilt the CAS connector I was good to go.

John

 

What about the receptacle? Should I take the sensor off and inspect it? Cuz I'm having a hard time seeing much inside it. The plastic gasket under the metal shim pretty much disintegrated when I tried to pull it out to have a look. There are two ~12mm bolts holding it onto the head below the valve cover; is that all I need to do to take it off to take apart, and is that a good idea? Otherwise, I mean, if I'm gonna bother with hacking off a sensor plug and splicing a new one, I might as well make sure the sensor's internals are good too.

Time to head to WTB subforum, I guess.

 

Getting another CAS and plug (among other things) from TakumiJr...we'll see how that works out.

 

Pulled ECU, cuz now this problem occurs 100% of the time. See pics.




Now, my longtime friend told me his dad did the caps on a Galant ECU awhile back, cuz his dad's friend is the one who sold me the car. But he also had more than one VR-4 (and a GSX, but that's a parts car). Anyway, the caps:

Big one by itself: Rubycon 9106 (50v 47µF)
Big one by little one: Rubycon 9101 (16v 100µF)
Little one by big one: nichicon A9125 (50v 22µF) (that one says Japan on it, so that has me worried; OEM?)

I'd rather not unsolder these if they're not the OEM caps...cuz if they are not, then it's probably the CAS, like John suggested, but I figured it'd be good to verify that I wasn't being BS'ed about the caps having been replaced.

If the ARE OEM bad guys (or if there's unseen acid damage from the old ones under them), then I guess it's time to ship this puppy to Terry or Jeff while I'm on my motorcycle vacation. I'll go ahead and pull the CAS off this weekend if you guys think the ECU looks good from pics and description of caps. There's no horrid capacitor stink on it that I can tell, just smells like old PCB.

EDIT: I guess the other obvious option is to get a stock ECU from one of our friends who are nearby and see if it works with that. So, anyone in FoCo, Denver, or nearby want me to pay for your entry to Brew Fest up here in exchange for plugging in your ECU to my car?

 

[toybreaker]

Those are the original caps, and they will need to be replaced.

It may or may not cure this problem, but it needs to be done, regardless.

I'm not travelling much these days, but I think Gary still has my spare ecu. You should send him a pm and see if you can make an arangement for him to come by and plug it in for a test by substitution.

 

^^^+++^^^
Don't let the fact that your ECU doesn't smell like rotten fish, or have holes burned through it, keep you from having the caps done. They ARE bad! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif Get them done ASAP to avoid costly ECU repairs later.

 

Should've checked this earlier! Damn! My friend's dad may well have replaced them...at least 7 years ago (maybe 10), which from what I've read is about as long as the 85C-rated caps last. So they're due again, sounds like, since he used the OEM caps.

Well, on the upside, I'm going on a 5 day motorcycle trip in about a week, so I will just mail off the ECU to Jeff to get it ZIF'ed and caps done/board repaired, so it can be back on the road when I return.

John, I'll call Cody (since I have his number) or PM Gary. Thanks for the lead on that.

Thanks again, guys. I guess the power wash of the engine bay was just a coincidence.

EDIT: I have an EE friend here in town who's been making PCB's for 10 years, so I'll probably just have him help me fix it.

 

Installed known good ECU (thanks gmp and Toybreaker!), problem persists. Still waiting on replacement CAS to arrive. I'll have to pick back up on it next week. Will also inspect resistor pack (if CAS looks ok once it's pulled off), now that I know which fancy doodad on the firewall it is.

 

Replaced CAS with a used one I got from TakumiJr, problem persists (still running Toybreaker's ECU). Will check resistor pack tonight, then rewire the CAS connector. If that doesn't work, might have to call in the cavalry.

 

Resistor pack has no visible damage without removing the metal casing around them. Connector in plug looked clean.

I'm really lost now...otherwise, it's time to start rewiring. Getting a ghetto cruiser in the mean time.

 

Is it possible that I have a bad injector? How do I trouble shoot this? I have a laptop running palm emu for MMcD, but I don't know exactly how to use the injector diagnostic features (I know where the button to click is, I just don't know where to read results or know if the injector passes/fails).

I'd prefer to check this before I start cutting wires or dropping a shitload of money on new injectors (or buy used injectors from one of you folks who've upgraded to bigger injectors). Pulling for a visual inspection or running a computer diagnostic would increase my confidence in doing the more nitty-gritty fixes suggested, knowing that the injectors themselves are solid.

If they're gunked up for some reason, will carb cleaner harm anything? Tips appreciated, but it just seems like something to check on a car w/ nearly 200,000 miles.

 

Quoting atc250r:
Oh, and I'm confused by the "Injectors Being Emo" title. Did they start to cry alot, wear dark clothes, makeup, and get a funny hair cut like this dork?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

John



Dude that isn't an emo kid, that's a goth kid. Huge difference!

 

A friend of mine has a shirt that says: "Never trust a fat goth". Evanescence = mall goth, haha.

 

Ok, so I did the diagnostic again via MMcD and it appears that injector #1 is the one that's not running, as shutting it off for 6 seconds did not affect the RPM, unlike the other three. Is the resistor pack in series for each, or parallel for all the injectors together? Judging by how it's wired, I'd guess the pack serves all four injectors. And since it is specifically only one injector that's awry, I'm guessing it's not the CAS wiring harness, otherwise you'd think it'd botch up all of them. But the car does run, just on 3 cylinders instead of 4.

Batt voltage was 14.2V...I'm running a PC680; is it possible that the #1 injector is not getting enough voltage or its delay is off in the ECU's lookup table because of that?

I am going to hook up the digital multimeter and compare #2 and #1, to get a baseline for what it should look like, and if #1 is getting a signal, then I know the injector is bad. If not, I guess it means trace the line for a circuit break? Or replace the pigtail?

Sorry to everyone who has offered advice, as I was kinda lazy off the bat at working on it and trying your suggestions, but I appreciate your help and have gotten off my ass (just been busy lately).