I'd skip the ARP studs if you don't have high HP plans. 6 bolt head bolts are reusable. Buy an aftermarket water pump (like Partsdinosaur.com). You can also get some gaskets from them if you don't want to splurge on that factory hg kit (which comes with stuff you won't need...). I have used their head, intake and exhaust gaskets and they have worked fine.
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'Horrible noise' says my mother. UPDATE with head off pics
- Thread starterWhoodoo
- Start date
Whoodoo
Well-known member
I had heard bad things about no OEM water pumps. Also the reason for getting the gasket kit is because it seems like there are tons of gaskets that will need replacing doing the head and BS removal that I figured it would be cheapest to get them all in a set, even if I dont use them all.
Does anyone have a list of all the gaskets that come in the OEM gasket kit that JNZ sells? I couldn't find a list on their website.
Does anyone have a list of all the gaskets that come in the OEM gasket kit that JNZ sells? I couldn't find a list on their website.
The easiest way to answer this is to tell you what it DOESN'T come with.
Every gasket on the motor with the exception of:
-Throttle Body Gaskets (they expect you to leave the TB bolted to the manifold)
-Injector O-rings and seals
-Injector rail o-rings
-CAS O-ring
Everything else is there.
Every gasket on the motor with the exception of:
-Throttle Body Gaskets (they expect you to leave the TB bolted to the manifold)
-Injector O-rings and seals
-Injector rail o-rings
-CAS O-ring
Everything else is there.
Whoodoo
Well-known member
Thanks. I called JNZ today and talked with Paul. He helped me price out getting just the gaskets I will need as opposed to the whole complete kit. It worked out to be about ten bucks cheaper, so I think I'll just go with the whole kit and have a few extras.
One thing that I am trying to find is the special tools. I know I can make the tensioner tool with my battery tie down and a die, but I need a valve spring compressor and would like to get a tensioner pulley tool as well. If I had a machine shop at my disposal I'd just make them, but lo, I have not. Is there anyone in the seattle area that wouldn't mind letting me borrow theirs?
One thing that I am trying to find is the special tools. I know I can make the tensioner tool with my battery tie down and a die, but I need a valve spring compressor and would like to get a tensioner pulley tool as well. If I had a machine shop at my disposal I'd just make them, but lo, I have not. Is there anyone in the seattle area that wouldn't mind letting me borrow theirs?
Whoodoo
Well-known member
Can someone please tell me what's going on?
I tried to get the timing back in sync for a compression test, but in the process I found that my intake cam spun freely...
One valve cover removal later....
This one's roller failed. Most of the needles were sitting right with it, but at least one had flown around a bit.
These were some of the pieces of the balance shaft that I pulled from inside the timing cover.
So here's my latest theory on what happened:
The balance shaft belt failed causing the main timing belt to skip teeth on the crank sprocket, causing pistons to hit valves, causing the rockers to pop off and/or explode.
Also, what will I need to replace? rockers? cams? lifters?
I tried to get the timing back in sync for a compression test, but in the process I found that my intake cam spun freely...
One valve cover removal later....
This one's roller failed. Most of the needles were sitting right with it, but at least one had flown around a bit.
These were some of the pieces of the balance shaft that I pulled from inside the timing cover.
So here's my latest theory on what happened:
The balance shaft belt failed causing the main timing belt to skip teeth on the crank sprocket, causing pistons to hit valves, causing the rockers to pop off and/or explode.
Also, what will I need to replace? rockers? cams? lifters?
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Brunoboy
Well-known member
Quoting turbowop:
Quoting SmoothCustomer:
The only thing about that cometic though is it's mls correct? That means he will have to disassemble his entire engine to have the block and head decked.
Meh. I never had the deck on my block decked before I threw on a Mitsu MLS headgasket. I had the head rebuilt which included it being decked, but the block was never touched other than me cleaning it off and checking the flatness with a straightedge. Been fine since '03.
Same, i had my head rebuilt and cleaned up, nothing to the block and threw a mls on, 5k miles and 150 psi across all fours.
Quoting SmoothCustomer:
The only thing about that cometic though is it's mls correct? That means he will have to disassemble his entire engine to have the block and head decked.
Meh. I never had the deck on my block decked before I threw on a Mitsu MLS headgasket. I had the head rebuilt which included it being decked, but the block was never touched other than me cleaning it off and checking the flatness with a straightedge. Been fine since '03.
Same, i had my head rebuilt and cleaned up, nothing to the block and threw a mls on, 5k miles and 150 psi across all fours.
curtis
Well-known member
You got bent/broken valves. The pistons are probably trashed as well, the rockers will be fine as well as the keepers and retainers. The cams could be fubar but without looking at the lobes you want know. I know people reuse pistons after they hit but when the piston smacks the valves it can cause fractures in the pistons. I don't reuse them. Besides that while your in there new bearings as well. Sorry man know the feeling
Whoodoo
Well-known member
The cams have some slight scoring on some of the lobes. You can see pretty much the worst of it in this picture.
Whoodoo
Well-known member
I got the head off the car yesterday.
The pistons are all smashed up pretty good.
Cylinder walls still look good though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Here's a better picture of the damage to the cams. This is the worst of it. What do you guys think, can I reuse them?
the stock manifold is broke real good too. Almost all of the studs broke and some weren't even tight because they had broke before we even tried to loosen them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif.
I'll be rebuilding the stock 14b because that's my cheapest option. Plus, I'm sure she wasn't performing quite up to par with all those exhaust leaks and I might be pleasantly surprised by a healthy 14b.
I'm still hunting down all the best deals on everything I need. I think the only machine work I will need is for the new valves, so let's hope I won't be emptying my pockets too much.
I think I had an oil leak somewhere because everything is super grody and dirty. I haven't found any one particular source, but it did go through oil fairly quickly. I am hoping it was just the valve seals.
Can I now be officially JSB?
The pistons are all smashed up pretty good.
Cylinder walls still look good though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Here's a better picture of the damage to the cams. This is the worst of it. What do you guys think, can I reuse them?
the stock manifold is broke real good too. Almost all of the studs broke and some weren't even tight because they had broke before we even tried to loosen them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif.
I'll be rebuilding the stock 14b because that's my cheapest option. Plus, I'm sure she wasn't performing quite up to par with all those exhaust leaks and I might be pleasantly surprised by a healthy 14b.
I'm still hunting down all the best deals on everything I need. I think the only machine work I will need is for the new valves, so let's hope I won't be emptying my pockets too much.
I think I had an oil leak somewhere because everything is super grody and dirty. I haven't found any one particular source, but it did go through oil fairly quickly. I am hoping it was just the valve seals.
Can I now be officially JSB?
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My opinion:
Don't reuse the head bolts. Get some new (to you) cams that aren't scored like that. I'd drop the oil pan to clean out any bits and pieces that might have made it down there. Once it is back together, run it for a handful of miles and dump the oil. Flush the system so to speak.
Don't reuse the head bolts. Get some new (to you) cams that aren't scored like that. I'd drop the oil pan to clean out any bits and pieces that might have made it down there. Once it is back together, run it for a handful of miles and dump the oil. Flush the system so to speak.
Check the valve guides, chances are they are trashed and you'll need those replaced during the head rebuild.
Whoodoo
Well-known member
Yea, guides are on the list too.
I got a chance to run a lathe and made myself a nice little 'race' shaft. AMS charges $165 for these /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
pic is here because for some reason I can't upload anything right now
I got a chance to run a lathe and made myself a nice little 'race' shaft. AMS charges $165 for these /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
pic is here because for some reason I can't upload anything right now
SouthCaliVR4
Well-known member
A quick fyi on the balance shaft belt. you can just leave it off. you don't have to get in & remove it (the forward balance shaft that is). I have had two motors where the balance shaft belt gave way, one I caught before the main was toast, one took the head. your engine will feel a bit rougher with just the one but no more so than if you remove the rear shaft. at least that way you have gotten one engine killer out of the picture & down the road when you rebuild the bottom end (And you will at some point) you can remove the shafts altogether.
SouthCaliVR4
Well-known member
I just looked through your pics again, yea you can reuse the cams, just get a red 3m scrubbie pad & smooth em up a bit. Don't reuse the mani, esp if your going to put money in the turbo, when my 1g mani looked like that it was also dropping little chunks of the crystalized minifold through the turbo and had mangled my exhaust wheel, it's not worth it if you can't afford it now just put the hotside back as is & save up for a turbo & manifold down the road a bit.
Whoodoo
Well-known member
I bought a complete JDM (yea, I know JDM is phat and all but I swear I'm not a ricer) head with some cams so I squeezed a little bit of go into this repair.
I was planning on getting a rebuild kit for the 14b and finding a 2g manifold to hang it from.
Right now I'm waiting on parts to come in and cleaning off EVERYTHING. It went through oil pretty quickly but it never dripped, so I am assuming that its one or all of the following:
valve seals
turbo
small leaks around the valve cover
possibly the crank seal
All of these will be fixed so lets hope that quells her oil appetite.
I was planning on getting a rebuild kit for the 14b and finding a 2g manifold to hang it from.
Right now I'm waiting on parts to come in and cleaning off EVERYTHING. It went through oil pretty quickly but it never dripped, so I am assuming that its one or all of the following:
valve seals
turbo
small leaks around the valve cover
possibly the crank seal
All of these will be fixed so lets hope that quells her oil appetite.
^^^ Also, worn piston rings allowing too much blow-by can eat up oil.
Whoodoo
Well-known member
Then lets hope that isn't the case as the pistons are one of the few things I am not getting to this time around. The car only has 140k and the cylinders still have cross hatching and I'm almost positive the engine hasn't been apart ever because everything looked too 'factory' when I took it apart.
moidsm1
Well-known member
Ive reused three motors that had the pistons looking like that. What I do it knock down the rough edges with a small hammer. Remove any metal that looks like it can chip off. Its soft aluminum so dont go ape on it, just take your time and lightly tap down the ridges, it will go down without too much force trust me
Valve guides can also cause an engine to eat up oil... I think you said you were replacing those already though.....
