GVR4 Custom shift knob group buy 2?

[slugsgomoo]

This devolved a lot. That said, after looking at how the number shows up on the knob, I actually greatly prefer the "plain" design.

I don't see anything wrong with you benefiting from your own work. If someone wants to get their own custom knob made, they need to produce their own artwork in all deference to you.

That said, I barely survived the last CF hood group buy fiasco (mine's actually in the garage now), however many group buys on this forum have involved people losing a lot of money. Nothing against you, but precedence says it's a big risk. I wasn't actually looking at the forums when you did the first one (my bad?), but as far as the forum is concerned, unless I know who the person is (like Andrew Brilliant for example), I'm not going to put up money until delivery, or at least shipping. I know it sucks to have to float all the money yourself, but too many people have gotten scammed to trust a pie in the sky group buy again.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

If your reasoning for offering a single design is to keep the uniqueness, and the members who bought the originals agree, then cool. It just seems more like you don't want to deal with the hassle of a second run, which is understandable. Then you start talking about keeping things secret, so I do a Google search. I figure, if you don't want to deal with the hassle, why not let the members themselves who want a knob deal with it. Apparently, this offends you, as this is stealing your idea. If that's how you feel (or any members who got a knob), then please, NOBODY ORDER RACAH'S CUSTOM KNOB!

Quoting Racah15:
And I don't mind doing the 3 designs again, but it was sort of a pain. If we stick to this one example, it will be easier for everyone, including production time, and we keep the unique-ness that I promised to the previous owners. And I see what you mean slugsgomoo, but this was a unique thing, and I'm sure some people care about that. I mean if you shell out $71 for a knob that's a one time thing, buying something this unique, then it's not, some people would be disappointed. Now I know our board is more mature than others and may not care, but I respect everyones opinion, and quite frankly some MAY care. I do not know. That's why I wish more people would put their input .



From the posts here, members give you input basically saying they don't care about the uniqueness, and would favor 3 options for the second group buy as well.

Quoting Racah15:
So guys, I really am leaning toward the simple design. It's actually really nice, and quite frankly, everyone will be happy since we can probably have the whole batch made and shipped in 3-4weeks, instead of the 2-3 months it took for the last run.



Despite requests, you still only offer 1 design. Basically according to you, because it's too much of a hassle, and for other selfish reasons of your own (your words, not mine). I post up your secret website, you get mad because people can now steal your one-off idea. I understand your point perfectly, but I don't understand what the big deal is. Coming from those who did post feedback, nobody seems to care about the limited edition-ness, so I'm not sure why you seem to.

I understand your comparison, but that's really comparing apples to oranges. You didn't design the logo, you didn't design the knob, you didn't design anything. Let's call it what it is. You emailed an existing image to a company, who arranged it on their pre-existing product to your liking. Unique idea? Yes. Unique anything else? No. I think you came up with a really cool idea, and it turned out great for the members who wanted one. I just think it's a shame others missed out for one reason or another, and because of that I said what I said. The community seems to be fine with a second run just like the first, but you don't, and that's my issue. You keep saying the first run was unique, but nobody seems to care about a unique second batch but you.

As I said before, good on you for conducting a successful group buy, as your efforts haven't gone unnoticed. I doubt anyone here is going to pirate your design without your permission. Conduct your group buy however you want, and do or do not share your unique ideas. I doesn't affect me either way.

 

[Gizmovr4]

Racah15 - you don’t have to explain yourself to anyone… the facts are you offered a product as a group buy and you delivered on the product with 100% satisfaction!! If you offer a second group buy – you should have the option to do as you wish.

There are always going to be people that are going to say they can do it better or differently- but in the end “they” didn’t !!

Its people like this that keep others from even attempting to organize a group buy … knowing that even a successful group buy will turn into what we see here!! Its always easy to criticize from the side line!

Good job Racah15 - I wouldnt hesitate to buy anything from you!!

 

[prove_it]

Break this down to simple business:

Racah came up with a design and sourced a manufacturer for his product. LOTS of companies do this. Now he "owns" the design, however without a patient it's free to steal, kinda. Anyway, he got these manufactured and then "sold" the product to us. I actually had no idea he was LOSING some money on this, which is why I feel bad for bitching about costs.

Now like an asshat, GST is now attacking him for being business like. Sure you can go behind a business back and source their product elsewhere. That takes some time and effort. That's what Racah is doing for us. He's doing the dirty work so we can say "shut up and take my money" then boom it shows up.

GST, you had no right to publicly discredit Racah for his efforts. That's why I'm bothered by this. It's hard to understand why your attacking him. Send a PM and discuss it. This site doesn't need anyone to tell off people like Racah and tell them they are wrong and doing this all bad. Keep it to a PM or shut up. What have you contributed to this forum?

That's not what this forum is about. Here we applaud those that come up with original ideas, design, and build products just for us. Who cares where the parts are sourced. Hell as an example you could buy metal stock and build your own Curtisfab sublink connectors, so why by from him? Because he did all the work to design, build, and sell them to everyone WITHOUT a huge profit margin. So is he wrong to do that?

We have rare cars that few places support. It's up to us to come up with stuff and share with each other. This is a community, not a mud slinging grudge match like tuners. Let's keep it that way and praise those that work their asses off for the rest of us so we can just type our name in and paypal some money for some cool stuff.

/rant

Curtis: I only use you as an example and I'm not throwing you under the bus.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Jesus Christ prove it, I wasn't trying to discredit anyone, and sure as sh*t am not faulting anyone for being business like.

Quoting prove_it:
Racah came up with a design and sourced a manufacturer for his product. LOTS of companies do this. Now he "owns" the design, however without a patient it's free to steal, kinda. Anyway, he got these manufactured and then "sold" the product to us. I actually had no idea he was LOSING some money on this, which is why I feel bad for bitching about costs.



Let me break this down to simple business:

If I get a Nike symbol put on a Fruit of the Loom tie-dye T-shirt, do I own the design? No. I just thought of combining an existing symbol with an existing product, which aside from being a unique idea, doesn't really entitle me to sh*t. Good luck trying to patient (or patent) that idea.

A bunch of guys who missed out on the first run seemed to want custom knobs like Racah initially offered. Racah didn't seem to be offering the same choices the second time around for whatever reason. I posted up the site Racah got them made at, so guys who missed out the first time could pursue getting a knob on their own if they choose to. The end.

I never encouraged anyone to "steal" his design or anything else, and definitely never said I could do better. I made a few suggestions to Racah on ways he could make things easier on himself (i.e. coordinating with the supplier so members can order his designs directly, saving him the hassle), but never said I could do it better. I said a hundred times, he can conduct his group buy however he wants. My point was, anyone here can do what Racah did, and get a custom knob made. So if that's your cup of tea, then go to the link and have at it.

IMO, Racah's "design" should be used however he sees fit, as it is his original idea. Again, good on him for conducting a successful group buy, and also offering to do another.

Edit: I have removed the links I originally posted. Please Contact Racah15 for details if you would like a custom knob. The PO has a unique idea, and it should be used as he sees fit.

 

[JoeyTredia]

Hey guys, after receiving my knob, like everybody else i was happy with the part /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif. That was until i connected it to power to check out how the LED illumination looked but to my surprise it didn't worked /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bawling.gif It wasn't due to a connection mistake or anything of that sort, it's a plain and simple two wire set up, black/white (positive) and black (negative). After testing a few times with no results i realized that i only had two options:
1. Contact Racah15 to see what could be done (which i first did but declined soon after reading all the controversy that has emerged from this buy) or
2. Fix the problem.
So i went for the second option, risky but i fixed the problem. Obviously not before having to completely "dissect" the shift knob. So with the purpose of ensuring our "little" investment i will share the procedure (of shift knob dismantling) i did with all of you, just in case anybody happens to encounter the same issue at some point. That being said, i want to make very clear that by no means it is my intention to discredit Racah15's (thanks again) efforts on this group buy nor contribute to the aforementioned controversy. Again, my only intention with this info is to help others if the same issue as mine arises to anyone. I will also point out that in the following pics, every aspect of this shift knob will be disclosed including: quality of fabrication, materials, and overall end-product which like in my case may bring you some new judgements about the product/value. I did came to my own conclusions (regarding value vs quality of the knob) after doing this procedure, which i will keep to myself and with all due respect, i ask you to keep yours (opinions about value vs quality) to yourselves also. As for not to bring any type of unwanted and/or unintentional controversy. Thanks for understanding.

This is when i got the knob





After LED not working i decided to disassemble the knob completely knowing that it wasn't necessary but since i was at the task i just decided that way (curiosity and learning reasons). And this is how it came out to be:






In a case where the LED needs to be replaced you don't have to take all apart like i did. You just carefully (with a plastic spudger or similar tool so you don't damage the aluminum ring) pry open the top cover (where shifts #'s are) and carefully pull it out.




After that you will surprisingly find a very simple single LED "bathed" in Hot Melt Adhesive (HMA), also known as hot glue sandwhiched between pieces of used printed paper (see pics if you don't believe me). After scratching my head /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif for a few seconds i realized that the purpose of the HMA and paper was to create (obviously) a bond and some diffusion/spreading of light to "cover" the whole numbers and letters area on top. How ingenious! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif







Anyways, after thinking for 10 seconds i decided to stick with the same "german engineering" (makes me wonder the difference between this and a chinese fabrication? or who's pirating who?) so i searched for 1 minute around my work area for parts and within 10 minutes i replicated this:



My 4 year old son told me that i could get something like this better:





But i told my son that i wanted to K.I.S.S. also. So this is my fixed knob results:






Hope this helps. Thanks.

 

[cheekychimp]

^^^ Holy Crap!

No fault on Racah's part here but damn I think this German Engineering design ought to get more exposure on other forums LOL. Should keep the tree hugging hippies happy, since they at least used recycled paper.

Any links to the 4 year old real LED solution? I am quite tempted now that you have shown how to do this to completely redo mine. I think the knob would benefit from more weight and would look better with the top ring anodized/powder coated black. Might as well fix the diffuser led whilst I am in there.

Paul.

 

[prove_it]

So what was the actual issue? Bad led? bad wiring?

 

[Racah15]

Hey guys, so I contacted the manufacturer, but I see Joey got a jump on fixing it instead.

Now I need your guys' opinions. I have an idea that should make everyone happy for a second run, but if you guys think these knobs are subpar, then I don't want to sell you guys something you don't want. After looking at these pictures, I see an outdated and really odd light up technique, but that's all I see. I understand it's not pretty inside, but that doesn't disqualify it, in my opinion, from being an actually nice product. Don't get me wrong, I do think that is bad, but I would have never even known this because I would of never taken my knob apart. I don't use the LED, I just got mine for the look and feel of it, because I had another one from my 2g talon that said TSI AWD and that felt really good. But it's not up to me since I have mine and I'm happy with mine. Again, if you guys think this item is subpar, let me know and I won't do the second run. I really don't want to sell junk, and I really want to hear from you guys. I know that LED is definitely poorly done, and I would of never known as I wouldn't have a need to take it apart, but both my knobs are still in good condition and holding up greatly. That's just my opinion though, which doesn't count anymore seeing as I already have my products and won't be ordering anymore for myself.

Again, please let me know what you think before I start the second run. If you guys feel this knob is inadequate, I won't be offering it.

Thanks

 

[JoeyTredia]

Quoting cheekychimp:
^^^ Holy Crap!

No fault on Racah's part here but damn I think this German Engineering design ought to get more exposure on other forums LOL. Should keep the tree hugging hippies happy, since they at least used recycled paper.

Any links to the 4 year old real LED solution? I am quite tempted now that you have shown how to do this to completely redo mine. I think the knob would benefit from more weight and would look better with the top ring anodized/powder coated black. Might as well fix the diffuser led whilst I am in there.

Paul.


Hi Paul, here's the link to the round REAL LED. That site is a LED superstore. And if you're planning on disassembling the knob, to pull the bottom aluminum piece (where the 3 allen screws are) i recommend to double wrap the area with a microfiber cloth or anything that comes to mind to prevent scoring or marking the aluminum and then use some vise-grip pliers to "grip" the wrapped part. Then using a pull (hard) and twist (left & right) motion you take it apart. Also be advised that the wires will be cut during that procedure but anyways they will be replaced. Good luck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif

 

[JoeyTredia]

Quoting prove_it:
So what was the actual issue? Bad led? bad wiring?


Hi Ryan, the actual issue was a bad LED. The wiring was ok.

 

[cheekychimp]

Joey,

Thanks for the information. It's always good to know what to expect before embarking on a project like this. I had thought about disassembling mine before you posted but didn't feel anywhere near as confident about doing it as I do now.

You also said that you didn't want to spark any further controversy with your post. I think that's a good attitude and I think you handled your post really, really well by the way.

That said, Racah, asked me to post up my thoughts on this issue. At the end of the day this is simply a method of diffusing the LED to provide consistent illumination across the logo. It doesn't look pretty disassembled, but nevertheless it does work. In contrast, you could do a beautiful job machining a recess to mount an LED under the logo and it could look like crap if not properly diffused.

My only issue was that I was sure that this rather unsatisfactory method of mounting the LED was what led to Joey's faulty unit. Ironically that doesn't appear to be the case. However, that still doesn't change the fact that the LED is not mounted at all. It's just wrapped in paper, stuffed in the top of the knob and secured with hot glue. My opinion is that for a buck fifty less profit the manufacturer could have drilled a hole in the knob under the logo, mounted the LED using one of those plastic LED bezels that come with most vehicle alarm systems and stuck a disk of white translucent nylon/plastic to the bottom of the logo to diffuse the light. The fact is however it probably wouldn't have worked any better it would just have been more durable (and looked more professional).

As for doing a second run, I don't think it should make a blind bit of difference. Everybody has seen this now and they can decide for themselves if they still want to buy one. If people want one they will order one and if they don't (whether because of the quality/workmanship or any other reason) then they won't, it's as simple as that! I'd just go ahead and let people make their own choice. The only 'problem' is going to be if a lot of people receive faulty knobs that they aren't willing to fix themselves. If that happens you would need to figure out who is going to be responsible for dealing with the returns.

 

[LIV4PSI]

I think they should be bought as "buyer beware." Returns are costly, and take a lot of effort. There is a middle man doing it for free, and they are coming from the other side of the world. Anyone who buys one should be comfortable with the possible necessary fixes (base/LED)

 

[Racah15]

Thanks for your input fellas.

Even still, I do not see as a mandatory buyer beware. I tested all the knobs, and they all worked fine prior to shipping and Jose's knob was damaged in transit. This would be taken care of by USPS, but I emailed the manufacturer if we can get a warranty. Which would take a couple weeks. I think Joey's knob may have been more at risk of damage due to his over seas location. Packages get roughed up more overseas usually than they do nationally. But I would still honor his knob and have that issued remedied if he didn't take the liberty to fix it.

I see what you guys mean, but in all honesty, it's really just a shift knob... I mean, Yes, I really hate that way the LED is made, but honestly, I really don't think that takes away from the feel and look of them... and shift knobs aren't supposed to be complex robots. If I gave you a list of all the websites I looked at, prior to choosing the current supplier, you guys would understand why I chose this manufacturer.

All the websites I have, aren't anything special. They do custom knobs, but they are made out of acrylic, or some type of hard glass, or metal. Then they engrave, or insert a logo inside the acrylic/material and insert a thread insert. Now I went over this and all of those custom knobs cost exactly the same as these knobs. $70 roughly, plus shipping. And quite frankly, all of them I found were cheezy at best. The ones that were REALLY COOL, were about $150 plus shipping, and weren't open as much customization unfortunately. So, I found these ones

I am not trying to uptalk these knobs, don't get me wrong, I just want to put into perspective to you guys, that these are shift knobs, and they are exactly that. They aren't turbo timers, Piggy back ecu's, or any complex item to be made. They are KISS, as Joey Treida. Kept it simple stupid. I really like looking at mine everyday, puts a smile in my face. Now that I know how subpar the led design is, it doesn't really deter the emotion I have towards it every time I see it when I hop in the car. So guys, just keep that in mind. Again, I'm taking all suggestions for now, and have them tallied here personally. So far I have a few saying find another supplier, and I have more saying they are fine. I just wanted to give you guys a second perspective for those who think these knobs are junk, when in reality, it's a pretty simple, efficient, design. And honestly, it's the best knob (That I have found, and trust me... I've looked!) for the value. None of my knobs have fallen apart, or deteriorated as of yet. I just checked the LED and it's fully functional. Infact, I may hook it up for a car show or something, it actually looks really cool! So just another perspective guys.

But I'm all ears if you guys want me to find another supplier. If you guys help me find a cool knob supplier for cheaper or that sells similar stuff, I'm down to contact them for a batch. I'm honest, and I'm open minded. I just thought these knobs were the best bang for the buck and I hope you guys do too. But if you don't, then we need to find another supplier!

Thanks

 

[prove_it]

I think one out of what 50? isn't a real indication that there is a big defect. There is workmanship like this done in brand new cars.

 

[JoeyTredia]

Hi guys, I completely agree on Paul and Abe's last comments. I know that with all the information i posted, there shouldn't be any more "wondering" and everything must be clear about what to really expect and that way you know how you are investing your money. I feel very comfortable with the knob and definitely would recommend it. Thanks.

My engine is still out but my shift knob is already in, jajaja.