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GVR4 Custom shift knob group buy 2?

Racah15

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Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
315
Location
Colorado springs CO
Thanks Cheeky, I really do appreciate that post. It has everything I wanted to post, but with more assertiveness.
I was about to log in today and post something of this caliber, but I didn't because I felt it would upset some people, but now that I know I'm not the only one with this perspective, I can post my opinion towards this.

You are correct, quite a number of interested fellows for the second run, previously had the chance. I posted 2 threads regarding these knobs (Anyone interested? and Group buy!) And I had HARDLY any interest. It wasn't until I took the time to design the knobs and post pics that I got SOME interest. I honestly didn't think it would be such a hit, but next thing I know, 28 people were interested (a few backed out).

If anyone knew what I had to do to make these knobs work and happen, you'd understand my "Lack of communication (Which i will admit, I didn't update frequent, but only because I had nothing to update)" and tardiness. I waited almost 10 days for the USPS packages to arrive, why? Because I made sure to order special ones, that you rarely ever see in store. These ones will outlast any other packaging, and are the safest for these knobs. I didn't want them damaged in transit, and sure as hell didn't want to not be able to be send (such as a standard envelope). And it wasn't my fault USPS took that long to deliver that package to me. I am sorry if it took too long, but I waited what you guys waited, which is where Liv4psi's post really bothered me. Yes it took a while for me to tell you it would work, because if I had told you guys that I could ship it in a standard envelope, I would of
1: charged you guys less than what it REALLY cost me to ship them, AND they probably wouldn't of been able to ship (an envelope is flimsy, weak, easy to tear, and that's if they LET me send bulky items in a "paper" (documents, folders etc) envelope)
2: Provided false info which could of caused delays
3:Gotten you guys mad that I would need more money (P.F.R.E.'s cost more to ship than standard Envelopes), and caused a shipping delay.

But you guys didn't know that, because you weren't in my boots.

Second: I told everyone this was going to be a one time thing. Everyone who had the chance to order, had the chance to order ( I even said I'd work with you guys if you didn't have the funds to pay at the due date ). So I assumed only people who actually got in the group buy were the only ones interested. I understand some new forum-ers joined and didn't get in the buy, but I felt the same way when Andrew Brilliant had his personal widebody 2g track made. I wanted one soooo bad, and had the money for it, but I didn't see the thread until years too late, and whoooopie, I'm SOL. Never again will that run be made.

Third: I am offering to do a second group buy because people keep asking me to. I already said those knobs were a 1 time thing. I am a man of my word, and I hope some people that know me, can back me up on this. If I make a mistake, I will man up and tell you that I made a mistake, and if I go against my word, I make every effort to correct that. Now I know knobs aren't very important when it comes to my morals (I call being a man of my word, part of my morals), but... I said it. Again, I offered to do a second run for you guys who just came in, or those of you who missed out, but using a simpler design. Those of you who want a different knob are going to have to sit out, and I apologize, but almost everyone had their chance, just like cheeky said. These (This) are/is the knobs I am doing now (1 design). If you don't like that design, you don't have to buy them. I spent my free time designing them (from the font, to the spacing, to the letters to the print) which didn't take stupid long time, but hey... but I can't please everyone. If you guys could of seen how many requests I had, it would of been ludicrous to do every design everyone wanted. ("I want this, but don't want this", "I don't want that I want this", "Those suck, do this!", "I don't want leather","I want mine only if it's heavy" etc...etc...etc..) I also want to add that I designed these to look great! I have 0 complaints(ok maybe one, being the shaft diameter problem) about my knob, I love the way it looks, I love the way it feels, I love the way the design looks and that's why I had then made by a guy that makes a vast variety of hand made German shift knobs, because I didn't want any Chinese feeling knobs that aren't going to last, or Heavy, expensive but cheap american made knobs.I wasn't about to order Billet or CNC'd aluminum either, since I had one, and I don't like the way they feel. Yes, I made that knob for me, but I offered it to you guys on the basis that I would be able to help out the board. I love helping people, but when I get criticized and demeaned, then it bothers me. So prove_it, I designed these and put a good thought into them, calling them cheap ebay knobs really does slightly offend me, because you're offending my work, along with the guy who created them. No on that has seen my knob think they are from eBay or Chinese for that matter. They know it's a quality knob and ask who did it. I personally would rather keep the source secret, for selfish reasons. I really like how unique my knob is, and it's stupid how many people want my knob. Every time I do something unique (whether it be on my guitars, cars, etc... There is always a following) I want to keep these unique and unobtainable. prove_it, if you see one of these in person, you will not think twice about agreeing that they are quality knobs. I hope the owners can chime on this as well.

So for those of you that are interested, I will do a second group buy. But only design 1, the simple design. Anyone else who wants something else will have to buy this: click

Thank you Cheeky for giving me the courage and man up to what I felt I needed to do. I don't mean to sound dick-ish in this post, but the amount of criticism I got for this, kind of made me not want to do another run. But I don't want to be pushed around either.
 
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LIV4PSI

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Nov 24, 2011
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I would like to apologize for being one of the people busting your balls. You did what awesome favor to the community, and it was exactly that, a favor. I honestly never realized how much effort goes into some of the custom parts, or how little reward there is for the one doing it.
 
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transparentdsm

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Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
3,690
Location
Cherry Hill, NJ
when i did the evo keys it was a hassle, i barely made the money i put out back. i think once i had enough people to ask me to do a second run at the end of that i made like 50 dollars. i had made and sold something like 80 or 90 of those keys and barely made 50 cents on each one. it was a lot of work and i made almost nothing, so good for you putting up with it and doing a second run. i would also like to add that i love my shift knob, i didnt want it to light up to i just pulled the cord out. i think it looks great in my car and i could not be happier. thank you again for doing such a cool group buy.

edit: i would also like to jump on Craig's bus and say sorry. i was being impatient and i knew you had the shift knobs and didn't want to wait any longer. i know how hectic things can get and how quickly they can get that way.
 
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dustyduff

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Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
425
Location
Mantua, NJ
First off Racah15.......Hats off to you for pulling of the impossible. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif A successful group buy effort on GVR4.org /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I am kicking myself a little for not getting in on the 1st group buy, but group buys typically don't go over well here. I admittently didn't want to "take the risk" (nothing personal against you).

You can't make everyone happy......if you're receiving no compsensation for your efforts, you have no obligation to make everyone happy either.

With that said, I would hope that you would still consider allowing use of the other designs for the 2nd group buy. Things should be a little smoother on the second go round. Manufacturing mistake will be corrected, design efforts are all ready done, and the vendor can turn them around quicker.

Not trying to pursuade or push the issue.....just making conversation. You could have likely charged a different value for each of the designs based on what people wanted. You should use the opportunity of the 2nd group buy to "recoup" some of the time/investment you put into the 1st group buy.

Either way, good luck with the second group buy.

(You should change is nickname to Ethan Hunt.....for pulling off mission impossible)
 

prove_it

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Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
Racah, I wasn't calling your knob a cheap ebay look a like. NO, I do love the look of these. I suppose I worded my thoughts wrong. I would have bought in on the first buy, but I decided that the money would be better spent on new inner tie rods, and front bearings. It sucked, but maintenance comes first. I'm still on the fence as I would love to buy one, but my funds are limited due to my mini me needing diapers, etc.

Again, I'd like to say sorry for offending you, that was not my intention. I'd really hate to see you get to the point and saying f*U guys. Group buys are a ton of work and a nightmare to organize, so please don't let my whining get to you.
 

GSTwithPSI

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Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,461
Location
SoCal
Quoting Racah15:

I personally would rather keep the source secret, for selfish reasons. I really like how unique my knob is, and it's stupid how many people want my knob. Every time I do something unique (whether it be on my guitars, cars, etc... There is always a following) I want to keep these unique and unobtainable.



I was going to keep quiet until you posted this. A simple Google search will yield your secret source: Please Contact Racah15

In the grand scheme of things, I'm a noob member here. But it doesn't take long before even new members here recognize words like "group buy", and stay the hell away due to all the bad turnouts. This is the main reason I (and probably a lot of other members) didn't participate in the first round. Many were probably waiting to see how the first round turned out before committing to the investment. In addition, the knobs offered weren't particularly my taste, but I do think the custom graphics you created turned out really well. I know you created something unique in your own free time without compensation, and you can say what is and is not done with your designs. I also understand you wanting to keep the venture unique to the original participants, as it was supposed to be a one time thing. As many have pointed out, you did the community a service, and it definitely seems appreciated.

Wanting to keep your source secret for selfish reasons is BS IMO. If you really wanted to hook up the community, I think you would share your designs openly, and reveal your source so members could order whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, straight from the manufacturer. Not to mention, some of the other members here may have ideas about their own designs. If everyone starts sharing ideas, who knows what the guys here could come up with. I even saw you got a knob in white leather, so even you wanted options that you didn't offer to the rest of the guys here. Guys like Turbophein are modding original factory window stickers to say whatever the hell you want, so the talent is definitely present among the members here. You keep talking about all the delays, hardships and other things that kept the knobs from being shipped quickly. Also, you mention your free time being dedicated to dealing with this. I respect all of that, and it's clear the community appreciates you sacrificing for all of these things. But, by being the middle man, these are the things you should come expect. Why not cut yourself out, and just offer this directly to members here so they don't have to deal with you, and you don't have to deal with them?

I guess I'm just trying to say you could have done things differently, saved yourself some hassle, and gave some of the members here an opportunity to get in on the goods at their leisure. For guys that didn't have the funds, they could buy when they do have the funds. For guys who didn't get the word, they wouldn't be missing out. None of the guys would pay for shipping twice. And best of all, you wouldn't have to deal with all the hassle.

If someone who participated in the first group buy had a strong objection to doing a second unique group buy, I could understand and I wouldn't be posting this. I think Slugs summed it up nicely...
Quoting slugsgomoo:
Without the number, it's just an illuminated knob IMO. With it, it's something special. As it turns out, what difference does it make, unless someone orders the wrong number there's only going to be one per car number, so who cares?


I agree that this should be a one time thing if that was the original intention. But the general consensus seems to be the community wouldn't mind if the same unique opportunity was offered to those in the community who missed out the first time. It is upsetting that you are ruling out some of the original designs because it's too much of a hassle, when all you have to do is share your source and design and be completely free of all the hassle. You could easily email your source and ask that anyone inquiring about your designs be given the original options you offered. That means I email your guy and say hey bro, I want design #3 with 1813/2000 and have it shipped straight to my door. Hell, you could even still organize the order with your contact if you wanted to, and have them shipped direct to each buyer. There are a bunch of ways you could do it so that there isn't so much work to do on your end.

In the end, it's your design, and you can choose how it's shared with the community. The link is up though, and I think it is fair to the members here to go about making their own designs and getting their own custom shift knobs made if they want.

Lastly, I do appreciate the time and effort you took to put this together and make this happen for the members here. It's not everyday a successful group buy happens, and as Cheeky said, you have proved your mettle. I am not busting your balls, I just hope you really share what you have done with the community, and not hold back for any selfish reasons.
 
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LIV4PSI

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Nov 24, 2011
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I'm torn between which of these two I want to order from him

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img.php
 

Racah15

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Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
315
Location
Colorado springs CO
I never said anyone can't know or shouldn't who the source was (That's weird that he's on ebay, I only found him through his website), I just wanted this design (my design) to be kept limited (Infact, no one asked. If they asked to make their own design (separate from the group buy), I would of told them. I just didn't want 14 different designs on my group buy.

I know what you are trying to do (or did) GST, but your coming off wrong doing it. To be honest, this also kind of made me mad that you just go ahead and tell everyone to go and order these knobs anyway, f*** the OP who did these, just go order it right here. That's how it's coming off as, and that really bums me out.

You know what guys,
Go ahead order whatever the f*** you guys want. Use my design against my will. Whatever I want doesn't mean sh*t to anyone anyway when everyone just wants me me me.
I'm done.

And PS, I did offer every LED and leather option to these members. I wrote it in a list.
it in my first post.


Thanks
 
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GSTwithPSI

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Jan 1, 2012
Messages
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SoCal
What am I trying to do? All I did was post up a site that anyone with a brain could find in 5 seconds. I just eliminated the 5 seconds for everyone interested. Not to mention, I found them on Ebay as well. I didn't tell anyone to order anything. In fact, I said that you should be credited for your design, and that it should be used how you see fit since you were the one who put in the work to get it on the knob. That being said, it's technically not even your design, it's GalantVR4.org's design. The logo was around long before you or I probably knew sh*t about the VR4. I respect the fact that you went forth and worked with the manufacturer to get it on the knob, but at the end of the day what you did isn't rocket science. The logo was already made, and a simple email from any member here would have put it on the knob just the same. I don't mean to be harsh, but those are blunt facts. From the posts here left by guys who got knobs the first round, everyone seems to be all for doing another unique group buy. You seem to be the only one who is upset about others getting a unique knob or using the design, which is pretty ironic when the underlying motive here is to help the community by offering up something unique for the car.

Look, I get that doing this took some effort on your part, but the way you chose to do it meant that effort would be required. My point was, you could (and can in the future) go about it differently, put in less effort and still get the same great end result. You keep telling everyone how much of a pain in the ass this is for you, and if they were in your shoes blah blah blah. And now, because it's too much of a hassle for you, other members can't get what they want, which I personally think is BS. Well, now they can be in your shoes, and don't have to pay extra money, or wait extra time to get a knob, because there's no middle man (you). I was making a friendly suggestion that takes less (or none) of your time and also alleviates you of any liability. I feel like if you truly wanted to help the community out, you wouldn't be so upset and mad about other's being able to order straight from the source. If there's anyone with a me me me mentality, it seems to be you. If you run the 2nd group buy like the first, it will still cost more, take more time, and give members 1 design option any way you cut it. Not to mention, it doubles the chances for error. I would think you would want the knob to cost less, get to members as quickly as possible, and give them as many design options available while minimizing possible errors?

Conduct your next group buy however you want. Nothing I've said will keep you from doing so. I just wanted to throw out the link for other members who may not want the item you are offering. And I'm not sure why you are so upset at me for doing so?

Quoting fuel:
sorry if I missed it before, but will round two of these shift knobs have correctly machined bases?



This is a perfect example. Instead of asking you (Racah15) who probably has no idea, buyers can email the seller directly, since he's the one making the damn knobs to begin with. That way you aren't liable when the item shows up all screwed up.
 
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prove_it

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Jul 3, 2008
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Sioux Falls, SD
GST, you were way out of line. Racah busted his balls for this site. You do need to learn some respect for others and the crap they endure to create something cool for us.

I'm sure no matter what, you'll defend yourself and simply act your a hero for listing the site. Way to go shitting up his thread.
 

Racah15

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Aug 28, 2012
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315
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Colorado springs CO
I'm selfish? Again, I made this knob for my personal use, and I offered it to the public as a favor, so I can share this design which I though was pretty cool, with others. I didn't really want to do it, I really did want this knob to be unique, but I really like you guys, so I offered it here, and here ONLY. I didn't have to do it, and I probably shouldn't have. That way I could have my knob, be happy, and not deal with peoples criticisms.

Okay, so then, after I offered my design with everyone, I told everyone that if we can get these knobs we would get a discount. Right, even more selfishness. I created this knob as an original, I shouldn't be obligated to share it with the whole world because if I don't that's considered being selfish by you. I like being original. I do lot's of original stuff so my personal stuff stands out. My cars, anything. But whoa... if I don't like to share my original stuff, then it's considered being selfish... Sorry Gst... my bad... whatever.


Even so, they are not cheaper. I paid $71 for my original TSI AWD knob. This included the shipping costs AND their rediculous paypal fee. $71 was my invoice from them and I can even see if I record from my original knob. So no, they aren't cheaper direct. Go to their website and try to order one. I came up with 52 euros, which equates to $71 after everything. So we all saved money. Yes, as with transparentdsm, there was a little left over which helped pay for the differences in payment amounts (some people didn't include paypal fees, in both runs, shipping AND Payment), shipping amounts, and insurance from them. So no they aren't cheaper through them and second of all, we all saved a little on shipping because it all shipped in one large box as opposed to 23 different boxes. But that's okay, you can continue on what you like to do.
 
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GSTwithPSI

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Quoting Racah15:

I personally would rather keep the source secret, for selfish reasons.



I wasn't calling you selfish, I was just reiterating what you said about yourself. Good on you for conducting a successful group buy. I clearly don't know all the details, and am sure you had your reasons for doing things the way you did. I'm not trying to discount or derail what you are doing, or have done here. I just suggested other options to members who may want something different than what you are offering this time around. I apologize if I've offended you.
 

Racah15

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Aug 28, 2012
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Colorado springs CO
Quote:

I'm not trying to discount or derail what you are doing, or have done here. I just suggested other options to members who may want something different than what you are offering this time around.




Not according to this:
Quote:

That means I email your guy and say hey bro, I want design #3 with 1813/2000 and have it shipped straight to my door.




Yes, I did say I wanted to keep the source secret, so people DON'T do EXACTLY what you just said in that statement I quoted. I called it a selfish reason, but I don't think it was selfish of me. I just wanted to keep my design exclusive. Now, thanks to you, everyone can go ahead and pirate my idea/design. Yeah... obviously not trying to offend me. Thanks
 
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GSTwithPSI

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So, you are mad because people can pirate your idea? Are you kidding me? How long did you think it would stay a secret, you know, using a manufacturer that has a public website and all? One Google search of "LED shift knob" brings up the a generic image of the knob on Ebay. I doubt anyone here is going to pirate your design without your blessing, so chill out.

Quoting GSTwithPSI:

That means I email your guy and say hey bro, I want design #3 with 1813/2000 and have it shipped straight to my door.



I didn't mean that literally. I meant that you could coordinate with the seller to make it easy for others to order your design directly, so you didn't have to deal with the hassle. It would be a way for you to share your design, and not deal with the hassle. That's my entire point.
 

Racah15

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Aug 28, 2012
Messages
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Colorado springs CO
You are not understanding me. My whole point was to never permanently hide the supplier. If someone came up to me and said "Hey listen, I have an idea for a knob that's different than yours, where can I get it done?" I would gladly list the source. I know it's not a secret, and I never fully intended it to be, I just said, that for the time being, using the designs I made, I want them being limited and unique. I never intended to buy an illuminated knob, I just love the way it looks and after searching for countless shift knobs, I found that site. It's stupid easy to find and I know that. I just figured it you wanted to go behind my back, and use my design, I wouldn't hear about it.

Also,Everyone who ordered these knobs wanted to be unique too, otherwise they would of just ordered a razo or walmart knob. I wanted to keep my source to myself so those of the people asking to use MY design, would have to go through the group buy thread and use a free, less unique design due to the fact I PROMISED everyone that I would keep that design limited and unique. And don't say the everyone wanted all the designs again, it was about 50/50, with people saying "I don't care", and other people saying, "the limited edition thing is cool and should keep it that way". And I'm talking about people who ordered them, not the people who want them (obviously, the majority will want the unique knobs).

Just think of it this way. IF you made something cool, custom, and one-off for your car, then you decided to share it with a select few, then someone blately and rudely just offers your design to everyone basically saying "screw the guy who created these, buy them here instead!", I think it would make you mad too. Again, I wasn't going to keep the source secret to those who wanted something else, but I wanted to keep it hush for those trying to go around the system and basically de-valuing the uniqueness and limited availability.

What you don't understand is that there were SUPPOSED TO BE LIMITED. FROM THE BEGINNING. That was the intention from the get-go! ONLY A SELECT FEW WERE TO HAVE THESE, aka the first run. Why do you think I erased the first post. What you did by saying "Hey now lets tell the source we want racahs design for our own needs" (which is how it came off to me), is basically disrespecting me, and everyone who ordered these, as these were supposed to be limited and unique.

So quit being mr.happyshareall and just leave my thread. I am too for sake of keeping my maturity and quit arguing.

Like I said, the way you posted your post (I know your intention, it was good, but it came off bad and that's how we/I took it), seems like a slap to face. It really did, and no matter how much you try to explain yourself, I won't comply. I know your trying to share this design with everyone who wants one, but guess what... The whole point was that these are to be unique. And you just killed the uniqueness by posting up the source and saying "Order from here instead, that way you get the design you want".

I'll put it this way...

Andrew Brilliant, is just that.. Brilliant. His design is unique and amazing. He offered a group buy for 5 individuals only , to purchase the same track body kit that he has. He designed it. He kept it to 5 to make it unique. That's what I was doing.

Now what you did, is basically along these lines. "Hey, for those of you who didn't get the body kits, just buy them here instead for cheaper!" So you basically slapping him in the face, his work, and his time. Plus they aren't cheaper anyway.

That's a scenario, I know it's not true, but maybe it helped you realize my perspective.


Also, thanks prove_it. I did read your comment wrong, I was just heated in the moment. I apologize.
 
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