Fuel sender feed line thread size? (AN fitting)

[CP]

My car began gushing fuel from somewhere above the tank yesterday. It began with longer than usual cranking time to start the engine several days ago. I thought it may be due to the colder weather. Then I noticed a puddle beneath the fuel tank this morning. Great /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

I got a look at the top of the sender tonight and found that the AN fitting attached to the sender (between the stock hardline from the sender/pump and the stainless line) was cracked and spraying fuel pretty badly with the engine running. Problem found /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif I need to order up a new fitting tomorrow and get this fixed ASAP.

I'm not positive on the size of the stainless line I've got from the sender to the fuel rail in front, but I'm assuming it's a standard size. What's the thread pitch of the stock feed line coming out of the sender? It's one of the AN fittings included in this kit. Anyone know?

The fitting looks like this, connecting to the stock sending unit on the bottom and to the hose on top:

 

[jepherz]

I'm pretty confused, is the fuel sender 100% stock? Then it shouldn't take an AN fitting... Maybe I'm not reading you correctly? And AN fittings don't varying thread pitches, unless it's going from metric to AN.

 

[CP]

It's that fitting in the picture. It threads onto the stock sender's hard tubing threaded nut that comes out of the tank and connects to the stainless hose that I've got running under the car to the front.

 

[jepherz]

Hmm, well the car doesn't come with any AN fittings, so I'm not sure how this can be. You'd technically have to get a fitting that goes from metric female inverted flare, to a male AN fitting, and then to the hose end. Sorry I can't help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Maybe a picture would help?

 

[CP]

 

[jepherz]

Yeah, that is definitely used wrong, possibly why it broke. Both flared fittings and AN fittings seal on the flared surface so there shouldn't have been pipe thread seal tape on it.

You should be able to get the hose size though, from the inside diameter measured in 16th of an inch increments and get the correct fittings to fix it. Ie. 6 AN has an internal diameter of 6/16ths of an inch.

 

[jepherz]

By the way, the SlowBoy kit says they use -6AN, so you shouldn't need a thread pitch for that much.

You really need something more along the lines of this to convert from metric to AN first, then a 6AN hose end.

 

[CP]

I bought the car with this setup. Both ends (the red AND blue) of that fitting were split when I removed it tonight. I can't measure the hose because the end you see is blow out to a much larger diameter than the ID of the hose itself. I'm wondering how I'm going to trim the end off without setting the car ablaze. I've used a dremel before, but in this case I don't think that will be a good idea. I'm probably going to have to disconnect the hose at the engine end and remove it from the car to air out before slicing the end off to get a good hose end to press into a fitting. Maybe I should just order the SBR kit and redo it all /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif There's an inline Russel fuel filter mounted just above the steering rack, which then continues with another foot of braided line to the end of the fuel rail.

 

[cOmpressor]

On a somewhat related note I found this sizing chart very helpful. Also just now found out what AN stands for (Army-Navy Fitting) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

AN and NPT fitting sizes chart

 

[jepherz]

There was a video posted a while ago from Aeroquip or one of those AN manufacturers showing the correct way to assemble their fittings. They used one of those wide "chisels" and a 3 lb sledge to cut the end of the hose clean off. I'd definitely pull it out from under the car at least enough to move it out by around the driver's door though.

Can you see a brand on the fitting? I definitely wouldn't go with that brand again...

 

[CP]

It's got some "R"s on it, so I'm guessing it's a Russell fitting.

 

[iceman69510]

As Jeff said, i would agree that fitting broke because it was forced over that metric fitting on the hard line. That metric fitting is a 14 x 1.5 (IIRC). Maybe you can order that Earl's type adapter fitting from the Speed Shack. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[iceman69510]

Quoting jepherz:
Yeah, that is definitely used wrong, possibly why it broke. Both flared fittings and AN fittings seal on the flared surface so there shouldn't have been pipe thread seal tape on it.



In this instance, the two flared surfaces would never have met. Lucky that stayed on there as long as it did.

Like this:

Hard line fitting flare (45*) sealing surface < > AN fitting flare (37*)seating surface.

 

[jepherz]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Just pointing out that thread tape had no business on there.

 

[GreenGSX]

That's just a swivel 6 AN fitting. The stock fuel line fitting will screw right into that no problems. You should use some Teflon tape on the threads just keep the tape towards the back side of the fitting.

Just as a FYI this all started with the SteveTek fuel line back in 2001.

click

 

[CarRacer]

Quoting jepherz:
There was a video posted a while ago from Aeroquip or one of those AN manufacturers showing the correct way to assemble their fittings. They used one of those wide "chisels" and a 3 lb sledge to cut the end of the hose clean off. I'd definitely pull it out from under the car at least enough to move it out by around the driver's door though.

Can you see a brand on the fitting? I definitely wouldn't go with that brand again...




Thats what I've done the last two times I've made hoses. I used a 1 1/2" wide chisel (make sure it's super sharp), a sledge and a piece of 1/4" aluminum plate. The plate allows some "give" for the chisel, so it cuts properly and doesn't dull prematurely. It also won't spark in your case.

It works well and prevents fraying by smashing the braid into the inner rubber. It also makes it easier to insert into the fitting, as it oblongs the hose. I orient the oblong vertically, insert from a 45* angle and press the top in with a flat screwdriver while raising the hose and pushing it farther into the fitting. It sounds more complicated than it is. The YouTube video explains it a lot better. Search "making AN hoses" and I'm sure it'll pop up. I think Earls did it.

As for Cy's problem, I've only seen AN fittings welded to the sender assembly itself. I do know summit sells a AN to hardlinr fitting, but those are all SAE hardline sizes. I was going to use one on my FPR return line instead of a hose clamp. Hopefully that helps point you in a useful direction.

 

[GVR4_1057]

That hose cutting video in on anplumbing.com. It works like a champ.

 

[iceman69510]

He may have done it that way, but that is not the proper way to do it.
Just because it "fits" doesn't mean it's right. 9/16-18 thread may be close, but is not 14 x 1.5 mm. I would rather (and did) spend $10 more to seal a high pressure line properly.

That's the kind of stupid stuff shade tree mechanics do. Then they can complain their "car" "Mitsu" "DSM" is unreliable junk. As you can see in Cy's case, it was just a time-delay failure.


Quoting GreenGSX:
That's just a swivel 6 AN fitting. The stock fuel line fitting will screw right into that no problems. You should use some Teflon tape on the threads just keep the tape towards the back side of the fitting.

Just as a FYI this all started with the SteveTek fuel line back in 2001.

click

 

[CP]

So WTF do I need to order to get this connected "properly" (not the typical DSM asshat way)? I'm pretty sure I've got -06 line. I'm looking through the Aeroquip catelog right now wondering if I should just replace with another straight fitting. Or get an adapter fitting to attach to the hardline stock fitting, and then another fitting that goes on the hose end and then attaches to the adapter. I need a definite on the thread size/pitch on the stock fitting attached to the sender before I can order anything.

I'll pull the hose out from beneath the car tonight. I don't have any chisels at home, and plan to use my Dremel method. I figure I can disconnect the line at the fuel filter, drain it, let it dry out and then cut it using my method.

 

[jepherz]

Quoting GreenGSX:
That's just a swivel 6 AN fitting. The stock fuel line fitting will screw right into that no problems. You should use some Teflon tape on the threads just keep the tape towards the back side of the fitting.

Just as a FYI this all started with the SteveTek fuel line back in 2001.

click



Just like I said above, teflon tape has NO BUSINESS on any flared fittings. This includes metric fittings (coming off the stock fuel sender) and AN fittings. Neither of the fittings CP is dealing with here are supposed to seal on the threads.

CP, you need to use an adapter to go from female metric threads to a male AN fitting, then to a new straight hose end fitting. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how the stock flared fitting is supposed to seal against the metric adapter I posted as I don't think those have regular or inverted flares in them.

Iceman, do you know how the metric adapters are meant to seal?

On second look, it seems as if the metric to AN fitting I posted is intended to seal using an O-ring.

I think Iceman is correct on the thread size for the adapter, 14mm x 1.5 Because that's the same adapter that I used to go from the stock hard line in the engine bay to install an AN fuel filter. The part number was EAR-9894DBHERL at summit.