front suspension clunk

[turbowop]

Quoting belize1334:
You said you can feel it in the floor boads? Maybe you have structural damage to the chassis or the front subframe.



Naw, I had the car checked out by a body guy I know when after I purchased it and to pull out the core support on a frame machine. Unibody is nice and straight on a laser rack.

The car has zero rust underneath. No structural damage that I can see either. Considering where the front subframe mounts, any banging going on in the front end would probably transfer the feeling right into the underbody/floorboard.

I wonder if the bushings for the front subframe are worn? I'm not really sure how that could happen though, and everything looks okay. I also checked all the mounting bolts and they were tight.

 

[turbowop]

Quoting mountaineerjeff:
are you sure it doesnt have spherical bearings? they are a stock/oem piece.
my car was having the same problem, I replaced the upper strut mounts and the bump stops. unfortunately I did them both at the same time, so I dont know what fixed it, but I do know I havent had a problem since.



Stock strut tops are not a spherical bearing. Spherical bearings, otherwise known as pillow balls, are what you find in a camber plate type strut mount.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

dumb, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif a bit confused /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but now straightened up, lol. but there are bearings in the mounts, I just evidently dont know what they are called, lol. the ones in my car were worn and had fallen apart.

thanks for helping straighten it out. sorry for confusion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

 

[turbowop]

Quoting BarnesMobile:
Can't you just park it next to #1051 and the awesomeness energy field will heal #503?



It is... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsdunno.gif




Here are some pics from underneath, not that I think it'll help much.

 

[1941Galant]

What about the wheel bearing? I'm not sure, but I assume it would be possible to hear a clunk noise going over bumps and such if there is slop in the wheel bearing.

 

[turbowop]

Wheel bearing is good, I checked it out while I had the knuckle off. If it were bad I think it would make some nasty sounds while rolling anyway.

 

[fivestardsm]

Well there is your problem...
The kanackel arm (red) isnt attached to the vaurandum shaft(yellow). And then you have the up-banamer shank (blue) shouldnt be that close to the spherical bouncer (purple). And I dont even know why you have the drakken bar (green) in there?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif






(I know, I am a dumb ass, But we all need some comedy when we get frustrated chasing problems on these!!)

 

[fivestardsm]

Quoting mountaineerjeff:
dumb, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif a bit confused /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but now straightened up, lol. but there are bearings in the mounts, I just evidently dont know what they are called, lol. the ones in my car were worn and had fallen apart.

thanks for helping straighten it out. sorry for confusion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif



Jeff,
Dont be so hard on your self!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
They do have a bearing, its just not a "spherical" It is a ball bearing. And yes they can make alot of noise when they are bad.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

honestly I just thought it was a communication error.
I mean spherical bearing, ball bearing

metal ball



metal sphere





I really dont know how I got confused? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[V8EATER]

I deal with a lot of this at work, especially vibration diagnosis.

Are you having any kind of noise associated with the clunk? Is it a sharp noise, loud noise? Does it happen at low speed, highway speed?

Wheel bearings can be difficult to diagnose. They can growl, whine, clunk or do nothing at all until they all the sudden just quit working. Checking them with the wheel in the air will only tell you when they've just about given up, but before that you'll find that they very well may not have any radial or axial play.

check condition/bolt torque on:

subframe bolts/bushings
bumper support (front end was wrecked as I remember)
subframe support brackets
wheel bearings
caliper mounting bolts
motor mounts
anything under the hood

unfortunately, it's very difficult for any of us to diagnose this noise without hearing it, it's too subjective to say you have a clunk. also, check and recheck everything, even the parts you've gone over. It's not that you aren't a good wrench, that's not up for debate- it's just easy to miss something, or dismiss it as good without a proper test.

I had a customer yesterday with the same problem. We found the sway bar endlink bushings were bad, and the top strut mount had some play (older Audi 4000 rally car). We repaired those things, and the issue was still there. Turns out, after checking every bolt under the car with a torque wrench, that it was the strut insert nut that had backed out a turn or so, and allowing the insert to jump around under heavy compression/rebound. It seemed tight, but after ensuring it was, the noise was gone.

 

I had a similar clunk in my Talon a few years ago. I found out it was the bushings in the front crossmember (the one the front motor mount is bolted to.) I installed some poly bushings on each end. The front end felt a little tighter and the clunk disappeared.

 

[ekschulz]

Mark, I'm glad it wasn't just me then. I tried tracking that clunk down for years. The clunk came with the car when I bought it.
Replaced sway bar end links, all control arm bushings, strut tops, and all ball joints. Still the same problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gifI banged around down there with a soft sledge to see if something moved. Nothing. I was going to try swapping struts from right to left and see if that did it. Sounds like you did this and still the same problem.
The stereo seemed liked the only way to solve the problem. Crank it.

 

[turbowop]

Yeah, I saw that you installed a new ball joint and the poly bushings on the driver's side. I guess that's why I found one extra new ball joint and extra poly bushings for the other side in one of those boxes you gave me with the car? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

Other than being mildly annoying, it hasn't caused any issues, so yeah, I'll just turn up the volume for now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[14u2nV]

I have an idea that you might check. Whey I started looking at all my new bushings, I noticed that some of the tubes that go through the centers aren't "tight" to the bolts. Maybe, even when tight, one can still shift just enough to clunk,, like the one on the control arm. Another thought is the carrier on the back of the motor for the axle. Another, Does the transfer case look like it's been bumping the subframe?

 

[vr4play]

It really sounds like the sway bar bushings to me. They can make all kinds of noise and it is hard to tell they are worn with the sway bar links hooked up. Take one of the sway bar links off and zip tie it out of the way and go drive it. If you take the side off that is making the noise you can also check the link. They are ball and socket joints and can make noise without feeling loose while hooked up. That is what we find is the culprit 90% of the time here at work. Especially in BMW's but I have seen alot of dsm's with the same problem.

 

[464/2K]

is the sway bar bracket missing(the one that has a little tab and one bolt, holding the s.b. to the subframe)?? the one on my non sunroof car is missing and oh man i get a horrible "clunk" when i hit bumps. which reminds me...... i need to go to the junkyard and get one.....

 

[turbowop]

Nothing is missing, but I'll pull 'em off and check 'em out anyway. Maybe next week when I get some time.

 

[evo8ya]

I went through this last year with 807. I replace tie rod ends, lower control arms, sway bar bushings, rack bushings, front strut mount, sway bar end links and all to no avail. It turned out it was the actual bump stops on the strut shaft that were so old they were broke and one actually fell off. Check to make sure yours are there and what kinda condition they're in. They are still available from mitsu.

 

[ktmrider]

^^ Heh, I had not thought about that.
Same vein, when I bought #86 it did have a clunk on the PSF over speed bumps and hard/fast left turns. Bump stop was complete gone. Replaced and all was fine!

 

[evo8ya]

right something so simple, wish I would've found it before I spent hundreds of dollars, when like $23 (or something like that) worth of parts fixed it haha