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How to wire knock sensor to NA harness and where to buy shielding wire.

89Mirageman

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I'm working on a 1g dsm na harness from a DOHC 4G63 car. I'm swapping it over to a turbo harness. The reason is because it's in perfect shape and there were no turbo 1g's at the junkyard. Anyway I am trying to wire up a connector for the knock sensor and see that it uses shielded wire. Where can I purchase this at?

I already know how to run the 7th wire for the maf and how to wire in the injector resistor pack. Just a little stumped on the knock sensor, never dealt with that before. Thanks!
 

biglady112

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You can run one wire from the ecu and the other from a ground. No sense messing with a shielded wire. I have done this a good five or six times now. My rat rod is wired this way. It is just a two pin connector.
 

89Mirageman

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I guess my question is, if it were that easy why didn't the factory wire it like that? I'm not saying you're wrong and I appreciate the help. Just wondering if there is a difference or not?
 

biglady112

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I am not an engineer, so I could not tell you. But it has been working for me for over seven years now without issue. Your shielded wire goes to your ground circuit. There is all sorts of stuff tied in together. The o2 sensor, knock sensor and a few other things. The o2 and knock sensor "un"shield right at the same point and tie together.
 
Last edited:

AllanL

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^ yup.

if you trace that shielding, it goes to GND all the way to inside to a GND wire in either the MPI relay or the smaller of the three ECU connectors.

but here it is on a ckt diagram:
img.php


i've done mine like biglady112 did, since my harness was basically an NA 92 Galant's and my ECU and some engine sensors (o2, knock, maf) were early Evo (III)...

hth...

so to answer your question if there's a difference, basically, there is not...
 
Last edited:

89Mirageman

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Well if it works for you guys it'll work for me. Thanks!
 

biglady112

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I did it last year on the 4g61 n/a summit I converted to be a turbo car. That was all the wiring I had to do as I installed high impedance injectors in the car.
 

iceman69510

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Just to be clear, according to this diagram, the signal wire is shielded, and that is not going to ground at pin 9. That is not a ground symbol. The "B" (black) wire is the ground there. wouldn't be much of a circuit if both were grounds.

I would suggest that wire is shielded because the signal from the piezo electric knock sensor is probably weak and interference could cause problems like, oh I don't know, "phantom knock"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Quoting AllanL:
^ yup.

if you trace that shielding, it goes to GND all the way to inside to a GND wire in either the MPI relay or the smaller of the three ECU connectors.

but here it is on a ckt diagram:
img.php


i've done mine like biglady112 did, since my harness was basically an NA 92 Galant's and my ECU and some engine sensors (o2, knock, maf) were early Evo (III)...

hth...

so to answer your question if there's a difference, basically, there is not...

 

89Mirageman

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So I do need to buy shielded wire then? Any idea where to purchase it?
 

biglady112

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You could go with a suggested assumption or listen to someone with a great track record who has done this with success numerous times. Your call.
 

AllanL

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Yup the BW wire is connected to one of the dotted points on the shielding.

The other dotted point on the shielding [B wire] is connected to the grounding point #8 which is the main grounding point of the ECU on the passenger side kick panel...

It is not connected to the W wire going to the ECU as the knock sensor signal...

Your call...
 

iceman69510

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Quoting 89Mirageman:
So I do need to buy shielded wire then? Any idea where to purchase it?



I wasn't suggesting you have to. Try it Steven's way.
 

AllanL

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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif

just do it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
 

89Mirageman

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I messaged another Mirage buddy that swapped his na car to turbo and he said they did the same thing. They just used regular wires to connect it and its been working fine. Guess it never hurts to get 2nd opinions. Thanks to all who posted!
 

biglady112

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We don't want to hear anymore about this until you are doing fire burnouts in the car after you turbocharge it. With video of course.
 
Last edited:

89Mirageman

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LOL that will be a while, don't even have an engine lined up for the summit yet. Just gathering info for now.
 

theevozero

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Seeing as how a 1g knock sensor only works on 2v scale, interference COULD effect the signal. Interference from the o2 sensor heater circuit, coils, alternator, etc......BUT, I have done this before without shielding and did not have any issue with phantom knock. I also did not run my wires with the original engine harness, so interference would have been minimal. Either way, this is a simple circuit, you shouldn't have any issues getting it to work properly.
 

toybreaker

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straight up, the factory shielded this wire for a reason

Speaking as a tech who troubleshoots the "weird sh*t" for shops for a living,

... I would install a shielded wire while the harness is gutted.


I have seen several instances where a vehicle would randomly run poorly / pull timing / set knock sensor codes when the shielding was missing and/or damaged.



One instance in particular sticks in my mind.

It was a smallblock swap into an older 4x4 that used a factory gm tbi harness.


The earlier versions of some of those engines didn't shield that wire

... and it must be said that hundreds of thousands of vehicles with those harnesses with an unshielded knock sensor wires go down the road, no worries at all.

However, adding a high energy coil/ignition system would occasionally cause some problems with the electronic spark control system

(est was an early attempt to control ignition timing with an ecu, as opposed to just centrifical and vaccumm advance/retard)


On that particular vehicle, the owner swapped in a v8 where a 4 banger had been.

He gutted the harness to eliminate a few of the emission controls/unecessary "fluff"

Thing would start and run okay, but occaisionally the exhaust manifolds would get so hot it would melt the plug wires/boots, and he said it run "weird".

... a timing light told the tale

The timing was all over the place.

After investigating the usuall suspects (applecored distributor drive gear/timing chain etc) I zero'd in on the est system.

... got to learn all about how the engineers did things in the stone age of electronic engine controls /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif

After swapping a few components (with known good used pieces) on a whim, I ran an external knock sensor wire outside the harness back to the ecu

vi~fawkin~ol~a! great succcess![/i]


I used a bare wire for testing, but that looked "scabby" on his build (man took pride in his work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )


After giving the situation some thought I visited a car stereo / home theatre buddy and gadged some quality shielded video cable.

Ran that inside his harness bundle, and terminated the shielding to ground inside the vehicle

never had another bit of trouble with that system



One thing to be mindfull of is that home stereo stuff is not rated for high temperatures!

On a 4g installed in a "standard" configuration, the wire is away from *most* of the serious heat, but there is some heat soak in the engine compartment at engine shutdown.

A little thought and some external loom rated for the temps found in engine compartments should get things up to snuff


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cliffs.gif

just because you can get away with it, doesn't mean you should!

If you don't know a "cool guy" in the business out there, I can source the materials for you at cost.

do it once, do it right, and boost on /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

toybreaker

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Quoting 89Mirageman:
I guess my question is, if it were that easy why didn't the factory wire it like that? I'm not saying you're wrong and I appreciate the help. Just wondering if there is a difference or not?



a little more background on how that system "works"

Quoting iceman69510:
Just to be clear, according to this diagram, the signal wire is shielded, and that is not going to ground at pin 9. That is not a ground symbol. The "B" (black) wire is the ground there. wouldn't be much of a circuit if both were grounds.

I would suggest that wire is shielded because the signal from the piezo electric knock sensor is probably weak and interference could cause problems like, oh I don't know, "phantom knock"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



^^^ this guy "gets" it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It's a lot like the rca cabling in car stereo systems that use external amplifiers.

The head unit produces a low amplitude signal that is passed to the amp thru the rca's

... any "noise" that gets into the signal path will be amplified

... you hear it as alternator whine or clicks n pops in your music

... assuming you listen to music and not the crap that kids listen to today

... sh*t sounds like a buncha disgruntled youths on their way to do community service in a plumbers van /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif


The knock sensor is a piezo electric crystal that is "tuned" to resonate in the same frequency as "knock"

... much like a microphone, it passes a low amplitude signal to the ecu

any "noise" passed down the signal pathwill be amplified by the ecu

get "unlucky" and that noise *may* mimic something the ecu will interpet as knock and pull a buncha timing

... leaving some horses on the table

... and increasing the egt's


why chance it?

do it once, do it right
 

89Mirageman

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LOL now I know how the kid with divorced parents feels when they both want to take him somewhere on the same weekend /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
 
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