another failed carbon thread

[mountaineerjeff]

so I have really been looking into doing custom carbon fiber parts. And I know how this forum fares with carbon fiber and group buys. but hear me out. Im simply gauging interest and right now there are no promises what so ever, just seeing where people stand.

how many people would be truly interested in a set of carbon fiber fenders?
The fenders would most likely be made from wet carbon and be the usdm design.
No down payment would be needed. The parts will be test fitted on my vr4. so before any payment is taken you will have photo proof of fitment, quality, and weight loss.
The parts will be completely real carbon fiber, and not a carbon rapped fiberglass.
Estimated weight 2 lbs.

As far as transaction details go, which is where the most problems happen, these will be made by an 'unknown' manufacturer with absolutely no credentials, or reputation. the only proof of quality will be the pictures of fitment on my own vr4, after they are made. As far as reassuring you that im not just going to screw you and take your money, if there is a board MOD interested in a set I will cover the costs and ship a set to them that they pay for AFTER they receive it. Then you can have them vouch for it.

If that doesn't cover/fix every single problem with group buys so far then let me know what else can be done.

So 3 major questions.

How many are even half interested?
What do you think a reasonable price is? (including the custom factor, and the only carbon construction)
Is there anything else to make you more comfortable with the idea?

 

[mountaineerjeff]

seriously guys give some feed back. You are getting an option at more after market support, the least you can do is give some feedback.
Our cars are slowly dying off, so care enough to at least give a reply. even if you think its a dumb idea, just get it out there.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

here's the steps for anything on this forum anymore.

make item

show how item fits

sell item

ship item

repeat and never deviate.
gauging interest is stupid and will get you now here.

 

[TylerAdamson]

I'd say get a set made for your car so you can show the quality and if someone else wants a set I'm sure they'll get a hold of you. Only cf product I'd be interested in anymore is a decent fitting trunk, I know Tuners Nation has them, but I've got other things to pay for before I can get to that.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

well I have found a source and the deal is I can have anything I want made if I cover ALL the over head, or if I get enough made to recoup the costs, then I get mine for free. No matter what the part is same deal. the thing is, Im not sure about the quality of larger pieces as of right now, such as hoods, and trunks. Plus I was trying to find parts that dont already have a manufacturer to try and get a more widely spread aftermarket for us. For me personally I dont care about weaves and everything, as long as the piece is straight, because all my parts would be painted, but I know alot of people care about the "carbon look." I was also trying to stick to single piece products, to avoid the alignment issues that the hoods had. Im pretty confident in having any interior pieces made, but I was trying to keep performance in mind. And there wouldnt be any gains to doing interior, unless we had a full dash done, which I wouldnt rule out on down the road, I just wanted to try something simple to start off.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

do it, go from there. simple as that.

 

[turbowop]

You'll never get enough people from this forum to buy CF fenders to recoup any costs. Good. f***ing. Luck.

 

[JNR]

Yeah, pigzilla said it the best (ha ha /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). LOL, seriously, there are too many things wrong with this thread to itemize, bulletize or otherwise file...So, I would pay for them to make you some if you really want them and if it turns out good, spread the word and maybe someday they'd come to a decent price...but, carbon fenders are probably not worth the money for not much weight savings and it has no structural value and besides good luck getting some 'shop' to meet the oem fit and finish. In other words, what is the point, unless you want to show off carbon fiber, for whatever reason. In that case, they have some convincing vinyl these days /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif

 

I'm interested, this forum is to talk about something that we all have in common; love for these awesome, headache causing cars. Is nice to have at least the dream of building something better, nicer looking,and ego bruising.
Since we can't buy, or want to buy a new car, then let's see what can be done to make our cars help us be entertained and not think about this recession we're going thru, and keep our hope up.

 

[curtis]

You want to entertain a project make them so a wider wheel will fit and also include a rear dogleg piece that has the same form of the flare for the rear. I would have already sold all my wheels and got 9.5's or 10's with 295+ sized width for mine if this was possible. I've looked and eyeballed my fenders more than once and with 2 cores from the yard and a few days free of interruptions would have all steel flared front fenders but the rears would have to be done as well and rear quarters will have to be done on the car and the doglegs would have to be matched to fit. Thats alot more work than i want to be a part of in my small shop. I'm not a body guy and some of the tools I would need I don't have.

Now I and I'm sure everyone else would want a widebody factory look and as evil looking as it is the black car in Japan or where ever that everyone has seen pictures of just doesn't do it for me. It looks like 85 chevy truck flares riveted on and bondo'd up.


As for making this happen you'll need two brand new perfect fenders. Waviness and lay comes into a factor with old parts. You'll need to build a steel brace out of small tubing on the inside to hold the fender to shape when not hard mounted on the car. A fender can twist very easily in a mold with a fluid mold happening. So right there your out 2 fenders, a bunch of plywood and fiberglass for a mold of each then have to look at what shipping is going to run ....Don't use greyhound. Paul's hoods and trunks fell victim to that. The day I picked up Pauls trunk lid there was holes in the wooden crate and both corners were fubar. With shipping comes boxes, tape, packing material etc. Alot is involved with this and would be cool if it happens but as was said the weight savings is minimal and price dictates.


Best of luck ..if you have any logistic questions or if it happens and you want me to be the one to inspect a sample send it on and I can ship them off to the next owner unless there flared /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif.

 

[H05TYL]

Curtis: You'd need to cut away most of the metal underneath the dogleg to clear wide tyres like that - it'd probably be easiest to just cut it all off level with the rear of the door and cut the dogleg to match.

The rear bumper and the metal under it would need cutting as well. Then separate the outer skin of the rear quarter from the inner arch, roll/pull the hell out of it, hammer the inner arch up to meet it and weld back together, then paint.

The fronts are pretty easy by comparison.

Is it just me who thinks carbon fibre on the outside of a car looks tacky?

 

[cheekychimp]

Jeff,

I appreciate the thought you have put into this and your attempt to make this a group buy that ends positively, but harsh though it may sound, the advice from Josh and Mark (Alpha Male and turbowop) is spot on. If you do not take a deposit beforehand, people WILL back out, I guarantee it. No offence to anyone on this board, but the vast majority of people here are a) young and on starting salaries or b) on tight incomes due to other financial commitments (mortgages, kids etc). Dozens of us would love carbon fibre bodykits, few of us are in a position to purchase them.

Second issue is fitment and looks. Carbon fibre parts are usually either show quality which means they need to be reinforced, have rolled edges and have a high lacquer finish or they look rough but weigh less than a nat's testicles. Show quality parts are likely a little lighter than stock, but they are not the featherlight flimsy panels that race cars use. Race drivers don't car about looks, they don't sit about crying that the hood is a quarter of an inch too short or bulges on one side. They weigh it, screw, nail or tape it on and go racing. You need to decide what type of part you are making. With fenders I doubt you are going to be saving 10 lbs in weight. For most of us a 30 minute run three times a week would net us the same weight savings and the stock fenders would probably still look better.

If you are going for looks, don't depend on anyone here and don't do this if you cannot afford to do it as a personal project. If you can afford it then just do it. Make them, show them off and price them up. No-one can truly reflect their interest without knowing the cost. If no-one buys one then so be it. Keep the molds and mention at every opportunity you get that yours is the only car on the forum with carbon fibre fenders.

 

[NateCrisman]

Have you even pulled the oem sheetmetal fender off to compare weight? I don't think it even weighs 3lb. My gut feeling this is not even a weight savings at all, and if it is, we are talking ounces.

I agree with WOP: utterly pointless other than rice.

 

[mitsuturbo]

I'm of the opinion that if you want CF for "looks" then a GVR4 is NOT the car for you. They make all sorts of bodykit gayness for Honda Civics. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The only CF part I can think of that i'd actually want, which would actually benefit these vehicles would be a driveshaft. However, it would definitely be a special order and would thus be quite easily cost-prohibitive.

 

[Hertz]

Quoting mountaineerjeff:
seriously guys give some feed back. You are getting an option at more after market support, the least you can do is give some feedback.
Our cars are slowly dying off, so care enough to at least give a reply. even if you think its a dumb idea, just get it out there.



I think if you couldn't wait more than 7 minutes before posting this, I'm not interested.

 

[mpt72]

Aside from a hood, trunk, and driveshaft, what else should be cf? Nothing on these bad boys. It would bring attention to an otherwise very low profile car.

 

[mitsuturbo]

Considering how the "cf" parts are made... for a trunk/hood, i'd rather just have plain smooth fiberglass, myself.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

alright well first off
"waiting 7 minutes" I waited until there were 20 views with no response.

Now I was simply going for the racecar factor, because like I had said I would be painting them, I agree with everything you guys say about rice.

In short I have a local here who is interested in helping our community, and fenders were the first and easiest thing I could think of. Im not sure about factory weight of the fenders, but given the weight of carbon vs steel, it will have a weight savings, even if its minimal.

im confident in being able to do a lot of small parts, but they would be complete 'rice' like interior pieces. I may have a hood done, but Im looking at having just an outer skin made with some modified support underneath. Not factory style bracing, something that would look fine painted, from the outside, but would have simple cross bracing underneath. and I know a lot of people really cared about the weave and such of the hoods, so I didnt want to do something so large/more expensive to start.
I believe that a dash would be a huge hit, given its weight savings, and the lack of options for replacement dashes. another thing I was considering was doing a copy of the 89 glove box.

I may just have a spark plug cover made, to see the quality of the work. and go from there. I feel like If i had 10 of those made I could sell them between the different boards.




curtis- thanks for the advice about the bracing. I had already considered this, but do you think that if there is some minimal play, and the mold is made with this light twist, that the CF piece wouldnt just be pulled straight by mounting it? I mean there are way more attachment points with a smaller piece, than with a hood, with only 2 points and a large surface area. As far as having the extra parts, I have 2 complete vr4s. so that wont be an issue. Any part that is made, will be made and then fitted on my parts car, and then mounted on the running one.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

center console lid

i'd buy one

front tray insert under radio, in front of shifter, id buy one

replacement underdash panels/glove box, id buy one...

theres many others id buy im sure

 

[mountaineerjeff]

I might just have one of each of these made and then i know that I would have at least one copy to sell.
as far as a center console cover, you mean like the arm rest? I dont know if I would like my arm sticking to it in the summer.

I dont think anything will happen for at least 2 weeks, because I have to wait on money from a bunch of pending transactions, to be able to fund this. One thing I would really like to know is how many of you would simply paint the items like I plan to? if so I can make sure the focus is on quality and fitment, not as much on the bling factor. the other problem is if we had multiple items offered, then we would have to make sure the weave was consistant. sure we can make sure it has the BLING factor, but then we may be increasing costs for something that is rice, and I dont want that to happen to our cars. So ill see about the interior parts but they may just be painted black to match the interior. as my goal was to get things made out of real carbon fiber, not fiberglassed rice.

dont get me wrong everything may come out looking like it belongs on a bugatti but im just trying to remain open minded, with someone I have never witnessed the finished product.