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Anyone running Water/Alky Injection?


G-GSX Turbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109693 posted 03/28/04 05:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Trying to find out if anyone has ran water/alky and what were the results.

How much more boost were you able to run or how well did it reduce your knock counts. Also any pics of the instal or tuning tips would be great.

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109694 posted 03/28/04 07:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm running it or was I should say. It's temporarily disconnected for other reasons.

I ran a super simple system. Tapped the windshield washer reservior, then a simple fuel filter to a 150psi pump and .8mm aquamist nozzle in the TB elbow, triggered by a hobbs switch and a master switch in the cockpit.

No solenoids, no multiple nozzles. Works for me to clear all knock up to 22 psi on the 20g and 91 octane with 272s and magnus intake manifold. Also keeps stuff amazingly clean. Even cleaned up my pistons and valves and evened out my compression. It's good stuff, take the plunge for a daily or often driven on pump gas car.

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Ash
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109695 posted 03/28/04 07:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I know it may be oversimplifiying it, but is there anything wrong with using a microswitch that gets activated at WOT rather than a Hobbs switch? I don't see why it would be a drama unless your turbo is ultra laggy. Might run the water out faster though.

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109696 posted 03/28/04 07:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
just so you can set the boost it turns on at. I prefer to not have it come on until 10 psi or later. It's not really needed (via logger info) below that ever.

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pisces
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109697 posted 03/28/04 07:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I ran water injection in my old GVR-4 and it worked amazingly well. On the logger you could see the knock drop off the chart when the WI system was activated. I ran a setup very similar to Pivvay's except I had a solenoid in-line. On my newly purchased Laser I'm going to run it again because of the excellent results, but leave out the solenoid for simplicity's sake.

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GVR-4
Creative Name Huh?
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109698 posted 03/28/04 09:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I know Ken has it set up on his car and likes it. I'm pretty sure he has two nozzles. Try a search.

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PacManVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109699 posted 03/28/04 09:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Kens the man to talk to about this.

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109700 posted 03/28/04 09:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My setup is modeled directly after Ken's except I only use 1 nozzle.

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G-GSX Turbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109701 posted 03/28/04 10:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by Pivvay:
I'm running it or was I should say. It's temporarily disconnected for other reasons.

I ran a super simple system. Tapped the windshield washer reservior, then a simple fuel filter to a 150psi pump and .8mm aquamist nozzle in the TB elbow, triggered by a hobbs switch and a master switch in the cockpit.

No solenoids, no multiple nozzles. Works for me to clear all knock up to 22 psi on the 20g and 91 octane with 272s and magnus intake manifold. Also keeps stuff amazingly clean. Even cleaned up my pistons and valves and evened out my compression. It's good stuff, take the plunge for a daily or often driven on pump gas car.

You say a 150psi pump. WHat pump exactly are you using?

I mostly wanted to run only water/Isopropyl and use a old stock fuel pump form a 2G. Don't know what the dead head pressure to the nozzle would be with that type of pump but I know the 100psi Sure-flow is like 2.3gpm which is like 138gph. Which a stock pump will not do but some people I have talked to are running the 10gph 3178K76 nozzle @ 100psi. Which I know a stock pump should be able to keep up with quite easily. I could even incorporate a type of return valve to bring the pressure down.

Which nozzle exactly are you using? Is it one from Mc Master

Were you running a 50/50 or what? What seemed to work best for you?

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ken inn
BJ Titsengolf lifer


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109702 posted 03/29/04 07:17 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i think a fuel pump will die quickly. fuel pumps use the fuel as a lubricant, and to cool it. and it aint the gph, it's the pressure. the common kits i see have the sf 60 psi pump, which i dont think is adequate. i use aquamist nozzles, they need at least 45psi to mist. add boost to that, and you are over 60 psi. as you increase pressure, the aquamist, or any nozzle, increases output. i use methanol(denatured alcohol) in the winter to stop freezing in the line. the rest of the time is distilled water. i also just go straight pump to nozzle. i used to have a solenoid, but no more. i had a tee splitting to 2 nozzles, but now i just have one right before the t/bdy. others go crazy on this, solenoids, accumulators, variable pressure/output with boost, yada, yada. there are arguments for and against all kinds of nozzle placements. because of the colder temps in the winter, plus the alcohol, there is condensation after the intercooler if you have the nozzle before the intercooler. i had one right after the turbo, too, but have since removed it. i have never seen the mcmaster-carr nozzles. the downside of the aquamist nozzle is it takes a special tap, and it costs 20 bucks. they are very precise, and very tiny. the aquamist pump is one expensive sucker. the sf is less than 100/shipped, and mine has been going strong forever. i did have to get a new diaphragm/valve, because the blue ww fluid ate up the viton, and the deposits in it destroyed my filter. now it's distilled only, no more blue stuff. i mix my own.

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109703 posted 03/29/04 07:26 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
http://www.sprayingequipmentsupply.com/pumps/diaphragm-pump.html
PN# 8030-813-239
That's the 150psi pump. You can use the 100psi one, I just tried the 150 psi one as an experiment. Works great but I don't know if it's worth the extra cost.

For aquamist stuff try Brad. He's always been great to me. *Stocks* tons of stuff.
Georges Imports Ltd
>8011 State Line Road
>Kansas City, MO 64114
>816 333 6582
>Email: br[email protected]
>Contact: Brad Schaffner

I'm using blue stuff out of shear lazyness. If I have to replace stuff I will but I don't go through that many tanks now that I have the civic for the DD.

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G-GSX Turbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109704 posted 03/29/04 08:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Do you have a link to the aquamist nozzles? What size tap do they use?

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109705 posted 03/29/04 08:54 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
m8x0.75 tap. call Brad to buy.

Aquamist website

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G-GSX Turbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109706 posted 03/29/04 08:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Not much info on that site.... [Frown]

What is the flow rate of your nozzle rated at?

I think I might have that size tap.

Do you have any pics of it installed?

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109707 posted 03/29/04 09:07 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
There is a TON of information on that site. CLick the resources page and keep going. There is all the science to back it up etc etc.

Then go to the supplier list page and find the nozzles. Click on the small red thing on the right next to the nozzle. Now you have flow rate info. Magic eh? THere site is a bit of a pain to find stuff, silly brits, but it's all there.

The tap is a super super fine one. I thought I had it since we have like all taps here at work. Guess what? we didn't have it. Taps like ass in thin aluminum too [Frown] Oh well I'm just making a bung for better threads.

As for pictures what do you need to see? I can take pictures of anything but it's super simple. If you can turbo a ggsx you can do this. Just buy the parts, hit the hardware store and radio shack and you'll be up and running in no time. Don't overcomplicate this in your mind. it's EASY.

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109708 posted 03/29/04 09:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
 -

boy am i nice

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109709 posted 03/29/04 09:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
napa part number for the hobbs switch. $27
part # 701-1575

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G-GSX Turbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109710 posted 03/29/04 09:33 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
LOL, thanks for the info.

I just like to map everything out before I start something. Knowing EXACTLY what I am doing usualy saves me tons of head aches when it comes time to do it. And even then stuff creeps up just to piss me off.

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109711 posted 03/29/04 09:38 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
 -

now you'll really love me. I take no responsibility if i messed up. it's just a quick paint elec/flow diagram but i think it's right.

Oh ya, throw an LED or 2 in there anywhere you want. I've got one after the switch (main on) and one after the hobbs switch(actually spraying). Blinky lights make it look neeto along with an aircraft style covered switch to make the ricers think you're spraying Nawwzzzzzzzzz instead of water. Heck you could even rig a purge in there to purge water on there car if you add a solenoid in the right place [ROFLMAO] [ROFLMAO] [ROFLMAO] Man i'm goofy today.

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G-GSX Turbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109712 posted 03/29/04 10:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm pretty clear on wiring and the tank I am going to build. The only thing I am still a little vague on is the nozzle set-up.

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meshwork
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109713 posted 03/29/04 11:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Chris you need a little stick figure guy with thought balloons on your drawing.

I never looked into water injection, so from an idiots standpoint, what would be the total dollar amount you'd end up spending on a system like this?

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109714 posted 03/29/04 11:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i think you can do it under $200 if you get the 100 psi pump. Definitely not more than $300. Crap for $300 I will build them for people with the 100 psi pump and your choice of nozzle.

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mj_rosenfeld
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109715 posted 03/29/04 12:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Cool schematic. Looks pretty straightforward. Could you answer an ignorant question though: what is a Hobbs switch?
Mike R.

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109716 posted 03/29/04 12:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
hobbs switch = adjustable pressure switch. switch is close until X psi of boost then it opens, wa la! [Big Grin]

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Bigfoot
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109717 posted 03/29/04 12:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Most water and/or alchohol injection setups use a fixed pressure pump. This means the motor gets the same amout of water at 14 psi as it does at 25. This can bog the motor just as it's coming into boost. Aquamist and SMC http://www.smcenterprises.com/injector_kit.htm sell variable pressure options. Last year Mike Licht of GM-MAF translator fame was saying that he was working with SMC and would come out with a DSM specific version with the variable rate option. Haven't heard anything about it since.

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