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Wont crank over consistently

JRuby

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
7
Location
Stow, Ohio
Hello! New owner of 525. I bought the car a few months ago and recently had the car delivered to OH from FL. Let the troubleshooting begin. The car is having issues cranking consistently. Most of the time when I try to start the car, I would hear a relay click, and the starter would not spin. The battery light and the 4WS light are on when this happens. Since having the car, I have put fresh oil and new oil filter on the car. Replaced the plugs with a set of BR7ES gapped to .029, and put a new battery in. The oil was pretty black, the plugs were toast. If I tried the key over and over it would crank occasionally. When it does crank, a lot of the time I can hear the starter spin (whirl). It will crank for a second and then whirl (No more teeth? Only catching in a few spots? Not getting proper voltage?) I pulled the one contact off the starter and cleaned it, it seems a bit more consistent but idk. These starters are no fun to get to. I have got the car to start a few times. On start will rev. up to 3k and then die out. I have got the car started and idling twice. The car has a surging idle, it has cams but there is an issue there.(leak test incoming) It has oil pressure, and idled up to temp, did not overheat. No horrible noises. Cool. I put the car in 1st and reverse and it moved, but dies out if you give it gas. I have ripped apart my house and garage for my multimeter it has been taken to the nether apparently, so awaiting a new one I guess. Going to check grounds and other signals when it arrives. I just got a siphon so I can pull the old gas out (car sat for at least a year or so) and put some fresh juice in. Also, need to make sure the car is getting fuel to the rail. I am no expert, (far from it) but trying to learn. Any insight ?

Thanks for reading,

Jacob


 
Last edited:

thomcasey

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
907
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Check all of your grounds and battery pos cable(s). Odds are they are original, and therefore very suspect.
 

CutlassJim

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
1,698
Location
Manchester, NH
With starters being so cheap I would just throw a new unit in there. It's sounding like the internal contacts are going out. The free spinning is just the starter gear spinning but the solenoid not popping the gear out to catch the flywheel. If it sat it could even just use a few smacks with a hammer on the solenoid. But for ~$65 to not have to worry about it leaving you stranded sounds like a deal to me. And not wasting the time troubleshooting it.

These engines are low compression but starters still love current so running 4awg, both positive and negative, from the battery to the starter post and starter bolt respectively makes any car crank over like a boss.

Another electrical trick that helps this chassis out a lot that I've done a bunch of times is to take the factory alternator wiring (2x 10-12ish gauge white wires) and disconnect them from the alt and fuse box. Attach the alt end to the case of the alt with a bolt in the unused threaded hole and the fusebox end to the chassis ground point under the fusebox. Then run 4awg along the same routing path for the new Alt + to fusebox "in".

Windows work better. Radio is louder. Almost zero dimming of lights at idle.
 

idreamidrive

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
430
Location
Murray, KY
Quoting CutlassJim:
Attach the alt end to the case of the alt with a bolt in the unused threaded hole and the fusebox end to the chassis ground point under the fusebox. Then run 4awg along the same routing path for the new Alt + to fusebox "in".


I am having a hard time picturing what you just wrote. Am I correct in that you are saying you are now using the factory alt positive wire (two white wires) as a ground and running a new 4 gauge wire as the positive?

Have you tried this without using that old positive wire as a ground? Or using a shorter run ground wire to chassis? I am just wondering if it's the new bigger + wire that makes the difference.
 

CutlassJim

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
1,698
Location
Manchester, NH
Yes.

I originally tried it with a short piece of wire from the alt tensioner bolt with a nut on it to the PS pump bracket but instead of taking off paint or putting an E bolt in there and leaving the factory + wire sitting there doing nothing I decided to put it to use and tie it into the factory chassis ground location. And I didn't like 4 awg flopping around that close to the belts. You could figure out a way to support it but why.

Current is a loop so upgrading just one side doesn't accomplish much (unless there is a deficiency on one side from the factory). The double upgrade has worked great multiple times on Galants as well as other cars so it's just my go to at this point for short money.
 

JRuby

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
7
Location
Stow, Ohio
Update!

Thank you for the input all. I started simple to resolve this, I cleaned all the grounds I could find with a wire brush to ensure a good connection. This took care of the car cranky reliably. Now I can start the car consistently. I found a huge issue that I should have addressed as the first thing. At the end of my post I stated I was going to pull the old gas out, and put new in. At this point the car would crank but would not start. So I went to siphon the gas out and to my surprise there was no gas cap on the car. The car sat for at least a year, in Florida. So I assume all the gas over this time has evaporated, and a lot of moisture was able to make its way in. Also, this clued me in that most likely the gas gauge is wrong, as the gas light was on but showing a half tank. So, I put 5 gallons of fresh gas in the car & a bit of fuel injector cleaner then borrowed the gas cap from my Evo until the new one arrived. It started. The idle is very wonky, most likely the ICS but we will get there. My main issue now is, when I put the car in first gear and go to drive, it starts to bog out. It feels as if you are starting in 2nd or third. IF you feather the clutch and get it rolling it will drive. I took it around my block a few times to try and run some fuel through the car. The car is not very responsive to the throttle. The car has AN fuel lines, so the filter is not in the stock location (if there is one) so when off work today I am going to track that down. I also ordered a new walbro 255 just to be sure that is not my issue. Just trying to keep updating as I go. If anyone has any ideas let me know!
 

gvr4ever

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
6,190
Location
central Indiana
I was going to say fuel filter, but you got that covered. Injectors might not be flowing well after sitting or if bad gas clogged them. Now that it's running, I'd do a boost leak test again.

If the car as AN fuel lines, what other mods? Any fuel pressure regulator or gauge?

Do you know how long the car has been sitting overall? Timing belt history?

Also make sure the CAS connection is good and the clip is in place.
 
Last edited:

JRuby

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
7
Location
Stow, Ohio
Hello,

There is basically nothing untouched on this car. Which is cool in a way, but makes trouble shooting a bit more tricky. Too much to to list so I will link the sale post from 2013 on this site. The previous owner put a jacks stage 2 tranny in the car but that is it I believe.

click

The car sat in FL for 2 years. I assume the same timing belt has been on it since 2013. There is a aeromotive FPR, it reads about 20psi on idle but have not checked when revving if it goes up (will test).

One of the first things I did is go over all the connectors I could find. CAS seems nice and snug.

This weekend I am going to do a leak test.

I had a question about the ECU it has a socketed ECU that was tuned with moates ostrich. What do I need to do to switch over to ECM link ? I figure this could make troubleshooting a bit easier and when I get the car going I will most likely take it to Buschur to be tuned.
 

gvr4ever

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
6,190
Location
central Indiana
I'd try and log before spending the money on ECM Link. The tune could be pretty decent, but I have no idea who moates ostrich is. I only have a tune chip by Keydiver (Jeff O) and it seems pretty stock running to me. Good enough for street use.

Not sure how to "test it", but your throttle body might need a rebuild. If it's never been done, probably worth doing.
 

JRuby

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
7
Location
Stow, Ohio
More Updates.

525 got me to work today!! I dug deeper into my fuel issues. I was seeing 27psi of fuel pressure, I read here the base is 37. The car has a -6 AN line which is cool. After getting to the sending unit, I saw many issues. The cap of the sending unit was very dirty, when I went to wipe it off a wire came loose. I found the Earls fuel filter there. The gaskets on the sending unit were compromised and causing shorts. When I loosened up the AN line going into the filter, I was met with dirty colored fuel. When I removed the other side of the filter, the AN fitting just snapped in half. Extremely corroded. I found many pieces of road salt sitting atop the tank, most likely aiding in the corrosion process. I ordered up a new filter and AN fittings also a walbro 255 kit. She sat for a couple of days as I awaited parts. With new parts in hand I got to work. Removing the fuel pump was a breeze. The pump had certainly seen better days. I discovered the floater was stuck as well. I had a low fuel light, but the needle said I had half a tank. The car has an after market sending unit and walbro 255 already, so replacement was simple enough. I replaced the gaskets on the top of the sending unit and put some new connectors on the wires. Checked for shorts and back in it went. Now time to replace the AN fitting on the line. Thank goodness this line had a extra couple inches. I used electrical tape and a dremel with a reinforced cutting wheel for this job. It took me 3 tries to get this to the point I was satisfied with the fitting. Reconnected everything and had my gf start the car as I watched for any leaks. Bone dry and now I see ~50 psi into the regulator. Sweet, I took the car for a spin around the block for the first time. YAY! The car hesitates in first gear almost stalls out until up to around 10 mph then normal in 2nd, 3rd, 4th. I am going to throw in some pictures I took during the process. I need to get more when I work on this next time. For anybody like me who does not know what exactly what they are doing, taking pictures before you take things apart and during the process is always a good idea. Also, I keep finding plugs and wires that are not connected to anything which is troublesome. Anybody know what the shielded wire is that is sheared ? The car has a sound system so I imagine it has to do something with that. I found it when I went to remove the plate on top of the sending unit.

Thanks for reading,




 

iceman69510

Turn Right Racing
Staff member
Joined
Mar 5, 2001
Messages
10,964
Location
Michigan
That braided wire is typically a ground strap. I don't recall one in that area normally, so it may have been a ground for an audio system like you said. If it is severed, it is not doing anything, so you can remove. Where is the other end attached?
 
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