Clutch dragging after new ACT2600
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yeti Nope still sticky fingers
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posted 12/01/20 05:25 PM
Cheese and rice, Looking for an explanation of why a longer slave rod bandaid is not a good fix, I’m using a stock resurfaced flywheel ( had step height checked by clutch shop ) New competition forged clutch fork & pivot ball ( not shimmed as the directions!) Lightly used act 2600 not even broken in ( had inspected by clutch shop and they agreed it’s not broken in ) @100 miles currently on my setup all city driving with light highway. New OEM master cylinder FULLY EXTENDED So the weird thing is the other day I adjusted the master because I noticed a grind going into reverse so I checked for drag by revving to 4500, the car inches forward. When adjusting the master the first time I got to a point where I could no longer push the slave in by hand, so I proceeded to thread the rod in a 1/2 turn back in. I could then push the slave/clutch fork with my hand and locked the locknut on the master. The other day I noticed a grind going into a gear so I removed launch limiter and revved to 6-7k the car inched forward again. So I got down there and re adjusted but this time I backed the rod all the way to the last thread and I can still push the slave by hand. What the fork. Is there a leak in the system? Slave busted? Anyway to check? My buddy said I need to thread the rod back in halfway but when I do that the clutch is literally 2-3” off the floor and has no engagement so I did that but put it back. Currently the master rod is fully extended on the last thread, I can push slave in by hand Could a SS clutch line really fix this problem? I have one waiting to install and will probably next chance I get but I’m almost sure it’s not gonna fix my problem. I’m thinking the slave is letting air in? How can I check if the slave is busted? Any and all help is greatly appreciated as Its currently my only registered vehicle and is being used for DD
~turbohair~
Posts: 795 | From: san diego california | Member Since: 10/13/10 | IP: (2600:1700:5020:1) |
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yeti Nope still sticky fingers
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posted 12/11/20 08:08 PM
Quoting 467:
Slave cylinder extended length rod doesn't help much as that distance gets adjusted out during the setup process.
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After re reading this 10 times, your saying what I think I comprehend. After installing extended slave rod I have to adjust master cylinder rod so that the gain from lever stroke is minimal, but in fact it’s there? So it’s possible to adjust the master to a sweet spot that utilizes the extended slave rod without over throwing PP into clutch disc? I mean I’m guessing I need like .5mm of extra throw. Or am I better of using a 2g master cylinder rod? click
~turbohair~
Edited by yeti (12/11/20 08:28 PM)
Posts: 795 | From: san diego california | Member Since: 10/13/10 | IP: (2600:1700:5020:1) |
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467 mass moment of inertia 467/1000
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posted 12/12/20 09:39 PM
No. I am saying that in actual use, with the proper clutch adjustment, the extended slave rod won't help at all, if it does it can mess up the throw out bearing and pressure plate. You are supposed to have a little free play in the pedal so the throw out bearing is not riding the pressure plate all the time. That is accomplished by the theaded adjustment between the pedal arm and the master as you show in the picture. So if you install the longer rod in the slave you should readjust the master adjustment rod to be shorter to get the freeplay back so the thowout bearing is not compressing the pressure plate when the clutch pedal is not compressed. The slave piston stroke has not changed in any way, so you really haven't gained any throw at the pressure plate and the clutch will still not disengage.
If you adjust to eliminate the freeplay, the extended rod will allow the master cylinder adjustment to heavily preload the pressure plate fingers by the throwout bearing. That will cause the pressure plate to possibly not have as much clamping force to the clutch initially, and it may actually allow the clutch to disengage. This is maladjusting the clutch and will possibly reduce the torque capacity of the clutch and pressure plate, while increasing dramatically the wear of the throwout bearing. So you might be able to get the clutch to disengage with the extended rod, but you cause other problems likely to bite you down the road. The extended rod just covers up the real problem by allowing a greater misadjustment of the clutch which will cause other issues.
From Road Race Engineering: click "If you are having problems with a clutch adjustment, don't be tempted to try to lengthen the clutch slave cylinder rod. It may work for a few symptoms (worn pedal assembly mostly) but it is not the right way to fix things. In order to take up additional free play, it puts constant pressure on the release bearing." Quoting yeti:
Quoting 467:
Slave cylinder extended length rod doesn't help much as that distance gets adjusted out during the setup process.
.
After re reading this 10 times, your saying what I think I comprehend. After installing extended slave rod I have to adjust master cylinder rod so that the gain from lever stroke is minimal, but in fact it’s there? So it’s possible to adjust the master to a sweet spot that utilizes the extended slave rod without over throwing PP into clutch disc? I mean I’m guessing I need like .5mm of extra throw. Or am I better of using a 2g master cylinder rod? click
Edited by 467 (12/12/20 09:58 PM)
Posts: 913 | From: Fremont Ca | Member Since: 03/16/01 | IP: (73.222.214.55) |
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yeti Nope still sticky fingers
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posted 12/13/20 07:09 PM
Quoting turbowop:
I'm still waiting to hear what slave cylinder diameter you have. You need the one with the smaller red/pink piston. Have you confirmed that's what you have yet?
Just checked today and it looks pink, quite hard to see with all that grease in there.
What’s the chances of this brand new OEm slave being faulty, kinda looked wet on the inside of the piston. Could of just been mad grease


~turbohair~
Posts: 795 | From: san diego california | Member Since: 10/13/10 | IP: (2600:1700:5020:1) |
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yeti Nope still sticky fingers
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posted 12/13/20 07:13 PM
Wow thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. So I’m guessing that goes for the lengthened master cylinder rod as well. What is the mechanics behind the reason the clutch is dragging? Still baffled as to what to look for next. Quoting 467:
No. I am saying that in actual use, with the proper clutch adjustment, the extended slave rod won't help at all, if it does it can mess up the throw out bearing and pressure plate. You are supposed to have a little free play in the pedal so the throw out bearing is not riding the pressure plate all the time. That is accomplished by the theaded adjustment between the pedal arm and the master as you show in the picture. So if you install the longer rod in the slave you should readjust the master adjustment rod to be shorter to get the freeplay back so the thowout bearing is not compressing the pressure plate when the clutch pedal is not compressed. The slave piston stroke has not changed in any way, so you really haven't gained any throw at the pressure plate and the clutch will still not disengage.
If you adjust to eliminate the freeplay, the extended rod will allow the master cylinder adjustment to heavily preload the pressure plate fingers by the throwout bearing. That will cause the pressure plate to possibly not have as much clamping force to the clutch initially, and it may actually allow the clutch to disengage. This is maladjusting the clutch and will possibly reduce the torque capacity of the clutch and pressure plate, while increasing dramatically the wear of the throwout bearing. So you might be able to get the clutch to disengage with the extended rod, but you cause other problems likely to bite you down the road. The extended rod just covers up the real problem by allowing a greater misadjustment of the clutch which will cause other issues.
From Road Race Engineering: click "If you are having problems with a clutch adjustment, don't be tempted to try to lengthen the clutch slave cylinder rod. It may work for a few symptoms (worn pedal assembly mostly) but it is not the right way to fix things. In order to take up additional free play, it puts constant pressure on the release bearing."
Quoting yeti:
Quoting 467:
Slave cylinder extended length rod doesn't help much as that distance gets adjusted out during the setup process. .
After re reading this 10 times, your saying what I think I comprehend.
After installing extended slave rod I have to adjust master cylinder rod so that the gain from lever stroke is minimal, but in fact it’s there?
So it’s possible to adjust the master to a sweet spot that utilizes the extended slave rod without over throwing PP into clutch disc? I mean I’m guessing I need like .5mm of extra throw.
Or am I better of using a 2g master cylinder rod? click
~turbohair~
Posts: 795 | From: san diego california | Member Since: 10/13/10 | IP: (2600:1700:5020:1) |
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yeti Nope still sticky fingers
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posted 12/13/20 11:12 PM
Here’s a pic before I changed the slave cylinder, I’d imagine it’s in the same place now. Ya really bummed. Is there a way to test what your asking? Like pump the pedal 5-10 times then hold down and check if drags? Using a brand new OEm master cylinder btw. The rod is adjusted fully all the way out and I can still push slave in by hand, would using a longer master cylinder rod adjusted out until I can’t push slave in work? Or is that the same idea as the extended slave rod.
~turbohair~
Posts: 795 | From: san diego california | Member Since: 10/13/10 | IP: (2600:1700:5020:1) |
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467 mass moment of inertia 467/1000
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posted 12/14/20 04:16 AM
OK, a few things. One, it looks like your fork may be starting out slightly too far to the left of center of the opening in the picture, it's close. It is hard to see from the picture, but I am going off the centerline of the flange around the opening and not the boot as the boot may not be centered in the opening. Check to make sure your clutch pedal can be pressed all the way to the floor without it appearing to stick on something before it hits the floor. See click @ 8:50 and click for more explanation. Two, you can simply depress the clutch pedal to the floor for a long time with the engine running and emergency brake on to see if the clutch starts to drag with increasing time if there is a problem with the clutch master. Three, I told you the wrong way to adjust the master clevis rod for maximum throw. Sorry, I wasn't aware of the self adjusting feature. See Jack's transmission video click for explanation of master clevis rod adjustment procedure. Four, I also forgot there is a stop adjustment at the top of the clutch arm that you may be able to adjust to give you some more pedal throw. See Jack's transmission video click @5:40 for explanation.
Five, you shouldn't need an extended master clevis rod for adjustment. I would look for something else that is the problem like excessive wear in the clutch linkages under the dash, worn elongated holes in the pivots all take away from clutch travel. I've seen bunched up carpet under the clutch pedal restrict travel, but that is extreme because clutch disengagement shouldn't occur that close to the floor.
Edit: I would check they gave you the correct master while I was at it. You never know.
Edited by 467 (12/14/20 04:54 AM)
Posts: 913 | From: Fremont Ca | Member Since: 03/16/01 | IP: (73.222.214.55) |
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467 mass moment of inertia 467/1000
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posted 12/14/20 07:32 AM
TMZ reports MB012660 (GVR4) clutch master NLA click The OEM part when it was available was quite a bit more expensive than aftermarket.
GSX_TC's Galant VR4 Build Thread has OEM MB012660 picture with 5/8 (piston size in.) cast into pass side of cylinder. click Piston size is the major issue, but I suppose an aftermarket could skimp in the length of the clevis or rod. Compare to old part if possible?
When your car popped out of gear in the driveway, it isn't the same test as what I described, but it shows your clutch is dragging a lot. Is it getting worse?
Testing the clutch pedal linkages under dash, grab hold of various components and push/pull back and forth in direction of actuation looking for looseness.
From transparentdsm: click "push the clutch down with your foot all the way to the floor, get out of the car, grab the clutch pedal arm and pull it straight up. if it pulls up higher then it was then the pedal assembly is broken."
Edited by 467 (12/14/20 08:28 AM)
Posts: 913 | From: Fremont Ca | Member Since: 03/16/01 | IP: (73.222.214.55) |
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