Clutch dragging after new ACT2600

[yeti]

Cheese and rice,

Looking for an explanation of why a longer slave rod bandaid is not a good fix, I’m using a stock resurfaced flywheel ( had step height checked by clutch shop )

New competition forged clutch fork & pivot ball ( not shimmed as the directions!)

Lightly used act 2600 not even broken in ( had inspected by clutch shop and they agreed it’s not broken in ) @100 miles currently on my setup all city driving with light highway.

New OEM master cylinder FULLY EXTENDED

So the weird thing is the other day I adjusted the master because I noticed a grind going into reverse so I checked for drag by revving to 4500, the car inches forward.

When adjusting the master the first time I got to a point where I could no longer push the slave in by hand, so I proceeded to thread the rod in a 1/2 turn back in. I could then push the slave/clutch fork with my hand and locked the locknut on the master.

The other day I noticed a grind going into a gear so I removed launch limiter and revved to 6-7k the car inched forward again.

So I got down there and re adjusted but this time I backed the rod all the way to the last thread and I can still push the slave by hand.

What the fork.

Is there a leak in the system? Slave busted? Anyway to check?

My buddy said I need to thread the rod back in halfway but when I do that the clutch is literally 2-3” off the floor and has no engagement so I did that but put it back.

Currently the master rod is fully extended on the last thread, I can push slave in by hand

Could a SS clutch line really fix this problem? I have one waiting to install and will probably next chance I get but I’m almost sure it’s not gonna fix my problem.

I’m thinking the slave is letting air in? How can I check if the slave is busted?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated as Its currently my only registered vehicle and is being used for DD

 

[gvr4ever]

SS line might keep you from grinding gears, but I never liked mine. Way too heavy and it seemed to max out the clutch system.

Could also double check your master and flush and bleed the whole system.

 

[yeti]

Ok so the slave cylinder has fluid all up in the inside under the rubber boot.

Really hoping that’s my problem.

Gonna order an extended slave rod with new OEm slave from extreme psi just in case.

After installing my new slave do I need to readjust the master cylinder rod?

Also how would I go about flushing the system?

Just open a bleeder and keep closing it while pumping in new fluid?

 

[iceman69510]

You may need to adjust the master rod again especially if you were not getting actual stroke from the slave.

You can start with a gravity bleed (may not always work), filling with fresh fluid and then opening the bleeder to let fluid flow down in the system. With a new slave you will likely need to actually manually bleed the air out when it has accumulated in the slave. Best as a two-person job unless you have a vacuum or pressure bleeder.

 

[turbowop]

Which slave cylinder are you using? If it's not the one with the smaller diameter piston (red) you're gonna have issues. Pull back the boot, it should be anodized red. If it's green you need to change it out.

 

[yeti]

Damn, so installed the new slave cylinder and SS clutch line, bled the shite out of it, depressed slave while foot was down, bleeder open, all that jazz.

Really hoping jacks transmission sent me a green rod slave, I’ll pull back boot tomorrow and check.

As of now clutch still dragging, not as much but enough to move the car at 6k.

But if I do infact have the pink slave ( that’s what I ordered)
So how about that extended slave cylinder rod? Should I try to pop that in?

I would need to adjust the clutch pedal after doing so correct, the master cylinder rod? Or I will overthrow the system?

I read the way to tell if your over throwing it is if your clutch grabs at the top instead of near the middle or near the floor

 

[467]

Slave cylinder extended length rod doesn't help much as that distance gets adjusted out during the setup process. You are losing clutch pressure plate lever stoke if everything else is correct. Incorrect flywheel step height, a worn pressure plate lever throw out pivot ball and excess wear (slop) in the clutch pedal arm at the point where the arm is attached to the rotating pivot shaft can also cause clutch disengagement issues. Check for pedal arm slop on high mileage cars, and cars with heavy duty cluches that cause high pedal effort, as it is a common point of wear.

If the slave cylinder is bled of the air properly, and is the correct diameter slave cylinder, if it was defective it would be leaking fluid as that is the only slave failure mode I know of that could cause your issue.

 

[yeti]

Faquin shiet, so I guess I’ll start examining the master cylinder again.

So far all that’s done.

OEM master,
OEM slave
Resurfaced and step height checked flywheel.
New act 2600 PP & Sprung 6 puck ceramic.
2g SS clutch line. From master to slave.
New competition clutch fork and pivot ball
New TOB

Bled repetitively.

Pedal has no play, while holding master cylinder rod, if I begin to press pedal it moves immediately with no slop.

I red on TRE that if my master rod is adjusted all the way out it’s my pedal for sure. They mention a method of lowering clutch then backing in master rod then pulling up on pedal.

No play there either, can double check but cheese and rice is that a bitch to do under the dash.

What’s the best way to check pedal play? I think I’m solid.

Could using a power bleeder be worth a try? While bleeding nothing but clear fluid comes out after the bubbles with the first 4-5 pumps.


Alsoo I’m using synchromesh could that be why I’m grinding gears and it feel super notchy?

I remember on the first clutch before exploding bellhousing I used redline mt90 and it felt a lot smoother. I think lol.

 

[yeti]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting 467:</font><hr />
Slave cylinder extended length rod doesn't help much as that distance gets adjusted out during the setup process.
.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

After re reading this 10 times, your saying what I think I comprehend.

After installing extended slave rod I have to adjust master cylinder rod so that the gain from lever stroke is minimal, but in fact it’s there?

So it’s possible to adjust the master to a sweet spot that utilizes the extended slave rod without over throwing PP into clutch disc? I mean I’m guessing I need like .5mm of extra throw.

Or am I better of using a 2g master cylinder rod? click

 

[turbowop]

I'm still waiting to hear what slave cylinder diameter you have. You need the one with the smaller red/pink piston. Have you confirmed that's what you have yet?

 

[467]

No. I am saying that in actual use, with the proper clutch adjustment, the extended slave rod won't help at all, if it does it can mess up the throw out bearing and pressure plate. You are supposed to have a little free play in the pedal so the throw out bearing is not riding the pressure plate all the time. That is accomplished by the theaded adjustment between the pedal arm and the master as you show in the picture. So if you install the longer rod in the slave you should readjust the master adjustment rod to be shorter to get the freeplay back so the thowout bearing is not compressing the pressure plate when the clutch pedal is not compressed. The slave piston stroke has not changed in any way, so you really haven't gained any throw at the pressure plate and the clutch will still not disengage.

If you adjust to eliminate the freeplay, the extended rod will allow the master cylinder adjustment to heavily preload the pressure plate fingers by the throwout bearing. That will cause the pressure plate to possibly not have as much clamping force to the clutch initially, and it may actually allow the clutch to disengage. This is maladjusting the clutch and will possibly reduce the torque capacity of the clutch and pressure plate, while increasing dramatically the wear of the throwout bearing. So you might be able to get the clutch to disengage with the extended rod, but you cause other problems likely to bite you down the road. The extended rod just covers up the real problem by allowing a greater misadjustment of the clutch which will cause other issues.

From Road Race Engineering: click "If you are having problems with a clutch adjustment, don't be tempted to try to lengthen the clutch slave cylinder rod. It may work for a few symptoms (worn pedal assembly mostly) but it is not the right way to fix things. In order to take up additional free play, it puts constant pressure on the release bearing."

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting yeti:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting 467:</font><hr />
Slave cylinder extended length rod doesn't help much as that distance gets adjusted out during the setup process.
.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

After re reading this 10 times, your saying what I think I comprehend.

After installing extended slave rod I have to adjust master cylinder rod so that the gain from lever stroke is minimal, but in fact it’s there?

So it’s possible to adjust the master to a sweet spot that utilizes the extended slave rod without over throwing PP into clutch disc? I mean I’m guessing I need like .5mm of extra throw.

Or am I better of using a 2g master cylinder rod? click

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

 

[yeti]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting turbowop:</font><hr />
I'm still waiting to hear what slave cylinder diameter you have. You need the one with the smaller red/pink piston. Have you confirmed that's what you have yet?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Just checked today and it looks pink, quite hard to see with all that grease in there.

What’s the chances of this brand new OEm slave being faulty, kinda looked wet on the inside of the piston. Could of just been mad grease

 

[yeti]

Wow thanks for taking the time to explain that to me.

So I’m guessing that goes for the lengthened master cylinder rod as well.

What is the mechanics behind the reason the clutch is dragging?

Still baffled as to what to look for next.




</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting 467:</font><hr />
No. I am saying that in actual use, with the proper clutch adjustment, the extended slave rod won't help at all, if it does it can mess up the throw out bearing and pressure plate. You are supposed to have a little free play in the pedal so the throw out bearing is not riding the pressure plate all the time. That is accomplished by the theaded adjustment between the pedal arm and the master as you show in the picture. So if you install the longer rod in the slave you should readjust the master adjustment rod to be shorter to get the freeplay back so the thowout bearing is not compressing the pressure plate when the clutch pedal is not compressed. The slave piston stroke has not changed in any way, so you really haven't gained any throw at the pressure plate and the clutch will still not disengage.

If you adjust to eliminate the freeplay, the extended rod will allow the master cylinder adjustment to heavily preload the pressure plate fingers by the throwout bearing. That will cause the pressure plate to possibly not have as much clamping force to the clutch initially, and it may actually allow the clutch to disengage. This is maladjusting the clutch and will possibly reduce the torque capacity of the clutch and pressure plate, while increasing dramatically the wear of the throwout bearing. So you might be able to get the clutch to disengage with the extended rod, but you cause other problems likely to bite you down the road. The extended rod just covers up the real problem by allowing a greater misadjustment of the clutch which will cause other issues.

From Road Race Engineering: click "If you are having problems with a clutch adjustment, don't be tempted to try to lengthen the clutch slave cylinder rod. It may work for a few symptoms (worn pedal assembly mostly) but it is not the right way to fix things. In order to take up additional free play, it puts constant pressure on the release bearing."

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting yeti:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting 467:</font><hr />
Slave cylinder extended length rod doesn't help much as that distance gets adjusted out during the setup process.
.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

After re reading this 10 times, your saying what I think I comprehend.

After installing extended slave rod I have to adjust master cylinder rod so that the gain from lever stroke is minimal, but in fact it’s there?

So it’s possible to adjust the master to a sweet spot that utilizes the extended slave rod without over throwing PP into clutch disc? I mean I’m guessing I need like .5mm of extra throw.

Or am I better of using a 2g master cylinder rod? click

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

 

[467]

Did you check the clutch fork position with the picture and description from RRE? click Does the clutch start to engage more and more if you depress the clutch fully for an extended time which would indicate a leaky master cylinder? If all that is OK, adjustment is correct, slave is bled, and pedal arm is not loose on pivot shaft I don't know what else would cause your issue.

 

[yeti]

Here’s a pic before I changed the slave cylinder, I’d imagine it’s in the same place now.

Ya really bummed.

Is there a way to test what your asking? Like pump the pedal 5-10 times then hold down and check if drags?

Using a brand new OEm master cylinder btw.

The rod is adjusted fully all the way out and I can still push slave in by hand, would using a longer master cylinder rod adjusted out until I can’t push slave in work?

Or is that the same idea as the extended slave rod.

 

[467]

OK, a few things.

One, it looks like your fork may be starting out slightly too far to the left of center of the opening in the picture, it's close. It is hard to see from the picture, but I am going off the centerline of the flange around the opening and not the boot as the boot may not be centered in the opening. Check to make sure your clutch pedal can be pressed all the way to the floor without it appearing to stick on something before it hits the floor. See click @ 8:50 and click for more explanation.

Two, you can simply depress the clutch pedal to the floor for a long time with the engine running and emergency brake on to see if the clutch starts to drag with increasing time if there is a problem with the clutch master.

Three, I told you the wrong way to adjust the master clevis rod for maximum throw. Sorry, I wasn't aware of the self adjusting feature. See Jack's transmission video click for explanation of master clevis rod adjustment procedure.

Four, I also forgot there is a stop adjustment at the top of the clutch arm that you may be able to adjust to give you some more pedal throw. See Jack's transmission video click @5:40 for explanation.

Five, you shouldn't need an extended master clevis rod for adjustment. I would look for something else that is the problem like excessive wear in the clutch linkages under the dash, worn elongated holes in the pivots all take away from clutch travel. I've seen bunched up carpet under the clutch pedal restrict travel, but that is extreme because clutch disengagement shouldn't occur that close to the floor.

Edit: I would check they gave you the correct master while I was at it. You never know.

 

[yeti]

Ok so pedal height is adjusted to the Max that still pushes switch,

I’ve adjusted the rod all the way to the last threads and I can still push the slave in by hand, that’s the weird thing, in jacks video you get to a point where you close off the valve in the slave and can no longer push it in by hand.

I can’t get to that point in my master as I run out of thread.

Nothing that I can see looks worn in the linkage but I don’t really know what I’m looking for to be honest. I’ve followed the links but the test say my pedal is good.

I’ll try the test your mentioning tomorrow, I drove up my driveway ( extremely steep ) and it didn’t want to come out of 1st after getting to the top, I pushed down on the pedal as hard as I could but didn’t change anything. I just applied slight pressure and it popped out ( as I’m typing this I’m sure that’s a bad thing to do and won’t be doing it anymore, I could of alternatively turned off the car.)

Is that essentially the same test, foot down for while and the car is locked in gear now? How would I go about testing the master cylinder? It’s brand new oem.

 

[467]

TMZ reports MB012660 (GVR4) clutch master NLA click The OEM part when it was available was quite a bit more expensive than aftermarket.

GSX_TC's Galant VR4 Build Thread has OEM MB012660 picture with 5/8 (piston size in.) cast into pass side of cylinder. click Piston size is the major issue, but I suppose an aftermarket could skimp in the length of the clevis or rod. Compare to old part if possible?

When your car popped out of gear in the driveway, it isn't the same test as what I described, but it shows your clutch is dragging a lot. Is it getting worse?

Testing the clutch pedal linkages under dash, grab hold of various components and push/pull back and forth in direction of actuation looking for looseness.

From transparentdsm: click
"push the clutch down with your foot all the way to the floor, get out of the car, grab the clutch pedal arm and pull it straight up. if it pulls up higher then it was then the pedal assembly is broken."

 

[yeti]

I checked the slave as I put it in for proper casting marks.

I’ve done the test but it’s solid as a rock when i let go, am I supposed to lower the clutch switch so the switch isn’t stopping it?

I wouldn’t say it’s getting worse, I’m daily driving the car right now.

I guess I’ll try an extended master cylinder rod

 

[yeti]

Ok so my slave cylinder piston is yellow not pink or green. I ordered OEm from extreme psi?

Wtf

From using the extended slave rod, I caused my clutch to start slipping under heavy decel the other day.

So I swapped the original back in, not I literally can’t get it into gear unless I fight the sh*t out of it.

Trans is leaking as well, it may have emptied itself gonna check that now