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Maybe something's bent? (Wheel vibration/pull)

DR1665

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Joined
Oct 19, 2005
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4,642
Location
Iowa City, IA
I'd really like to figure out what's causing this shiz...

Symptoms:
- car pulls to the left at all times
- at 65-75mph, serious shaking from RF corner, felt in steering wheel, can see it in the hood through the windshield. (!)

I tried re-torquing the lug nuts on both front wheels, but nothing changed.

I tried removing and re-installing the RF wheel. (!) I removed the lug nuts, but the wheel wouldn't come off. Even after smacking the tire side-to-side and top-to-bottom with a big hammer, the wheel wouldn't come off. (Say what?) Like an idiot, I lowered the car onto the wheels without the lug nuts snugged and the wheel popped free. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif

Oddly enough, every time I try to bolt up a wheel (any wheel) on that corner now, even though I held the wheel solidly in place as I snug the lug nuts down by hand, torquing each one results in the wheel working its way onto the hub. You know how you can usually hold the wheel in place, run one nut down snug (to keep it flat), then spin the others down all the way torque them? When I try this, it's like the wheel isn't sitting flush on the hub or something. As I spin each successive nut down with the impact, the wheel moves closer to the hub on that side. WTF.

I sanded the mating surfaces on the center of the wheel and hub. (For lack of proper terminology, I'm calling this the "hub-centric" surfaces, as this is obviously what centers the wheel on the hub as far as I can tell.) Might have been a minor improvement in vibration, but not enough to give me any confidence.

I swapped both fronts with another set of GVR4 wheels, but this time, the car pulled right and the shaking was just as bad.

I just swapped the LF/RF wheels (running a pair of directional Hankook R-S2s backwards). Now the car pulls right pretty much to the extent it had pulled left. The vibration seems much better, though it's still, clearly there.

Any ideas?
When I lowered the car onto the loose wheel, what are the chances I bent the hub or something? I've checked the wheel studs against the rotor with a straight edge and they all appear straight, but as much as my plan was to swap hubs between the rally car and the daily driver as a "sure thing" tonight, I really don't want to do all that if it's likely wheel related (which the recent improvement in vibration and pulling to the right seems to suggest).

Hell or high water, I'm driving the car to MOD in three weeks, but swapping hubs means a Saturday at the alignment shop, so I don't have a whole of time left. Appreciate any insights.

Thanks.
 

SouthCaliVR4

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North county San Diego
Put her on four jackstands & run it in gear. If something isn't running true you'll see it.
 

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
Messages
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Location
Iowa City, IA
Good idea, SoCal. I'll give it a shot.
 

coolclean577

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Apr 30, 2010
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191
Location
Omaha NE
is your tran bolts all good.. bec i had a problem like that alittle with my old eclipse the tran bolts were lose.
 

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
Messages
4,642
Location
Iowa City, IA
Took it JSB. Idling in first gear, there's obvious wobble in the right front. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bawling.gif

Just about got the hub completely free, only to discover my axle nut socket has walked off. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Off to vatozone for a socket and new brake pads...
 

14u2nV

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Before you get too far into it, are you sure it's not just a warped rotor or hanging caliper? Those can cause that condition. Unless the wheel bearing is gone, or you hit something pretty hard, I don't see how the hub can be bent.

*Also, make sure there isn't something stuck between the rotor and hub face, like dirt or rust.
 
Last edited:

Barnes

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Feb 9, 2003
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Richland, WA
I was under the impression that if the axle nut is not tight, the bearings in the hub will fail. Since the axle nut doesn't keep the hub running true, it only keeps the bearings happy, I suspect this is exactly what happened and why you have the wobble. You should check the hub for play with the axle removed from the hub. If it turns true and has no play you are probably good. However I'd be surprised if that is the case.
 

SouthCaliVR4

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Quoting DR1665:
Took it JSB. Idling in first gear, there's obvious wobble in the right front. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bawling.gif

Just about got the hub completely free, only to discover my axle nut socket has walked off. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Off to vatozone for a socket and new brake pads...



Easy, unbolt the wheels & run it again. if the hub runs true it's a wheel/mounting issue. Otherwise your problem should be right there to see.
 

Barnes

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Richland, WA
If he runs it without the wheel he needs to bolt down the rotor with a pair of lug nuts and maybe some washers if need be.
 

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
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Iowa City, IA
Ended up swapping hub/axle between 195/2000 and 464/1000. Problem is solved.

Axle nut was tight. So tight, in fact, that I bent a 3ft, 1/2" breaker with a cheater. Ended up cutting it off with a Dremel.

Not sure WTF was wrong. Car still pulls left, but the vibration is completely gone. Gonna get an alignment (and paint job) before MOD.

Thanks for the help, gents.
 

DR1665

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Location
Iowa City, IA
Mother <i>f*cker!</i> Problem is <i>not</i> solved!

Brake calipers looked good (clean and dry) when I took things apart last weekend. Pads were well-worn, but evenly. Guide/lock pins in correct locations and adequately greased. Not suspecting a brake issue.

Replacement CV is known good from the other Galant.

Ball joint boot looked rough, but not bad. New suspect?

Tonight or tomorrow night, I will be swapping tires front to back. If the symptoms persist in the RF corner, I'm going with ball joint.

Damn annoying. I should be painting the car for MOD this weekend, but no, I'll be spending another day out in the 113° heat dicking with filthy Galant running gear again.
 

Barnes

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Can you feel any free play when you have the wheel off the ground and then pull and tug on it?
 

14u2nV

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Agency/St. Joe, MO
did you verify that the rotor is not warped/bent or being spaced out by dirt/rust?

also, if your alignment is off, it will shake. Shouldn't make the wheel wobble though. There are only so many things that it can be, and they have all been mentioned.
 
Last edited:

DR1665

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Iowa City, IA
@Barnes - No wobble X, Y, or Z with the wheel off the ground. Solid.

@14u2nv - There was minimal rust behind the rotor, as can be expected. Nothing that looked out of the ordinary. The rotor slipped off the hub easy-peasy, too.

The plan was to swap the wheels on that side of the car, front to back, last night, but a good friend of mine found pictures of another dude's junk on the email account he shares with his wife, so I ended up swapping more full empty beer bottles for full ones.

Tonight, though. Trying not to spend any more money on fruitless "repairs."

Thanks.
 

DR1665

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Location
Iowa City, IA
Rotated wheels/tires on the passenger side last night. Problem persists, still in RF corner.

Took an old thermocouple to the front wheels/calipers this morning. (Wish I had a laser thermometer.)

LF: 125°F
RF: 145°F

Doesn't seem like enough of a difference to suggest a dragging piston or such to me. Is it?

So far, I've swapped out:
- wheel
- hub
- cv
- pads

Trying to narrow it down. Running out of time before MOD and don't want to throw even more money at the wrong theories.

Ball joint?
Brake rotor?
Angry deities?

Thanks.
 

14u2nV

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Jul 22, 2004
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Take your rotor off, see if it is warped. Switch it to the other side and see if the vibration goes to the other side with it.
 

SouthCaliVR4

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North county San Diego
Ball joint can definitely give a wobble, usually right after a bump or turn then it will settle till the next turn or bump. inner tie rod can cause a vibration also but you will feel/hear it in the steering column. outer tie rod is the same but you don't generally feel it as much in the column.
 

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
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Location
Iowa City, IA
Thanks for the feedback.

This wobble is constant through 65-70mph. Bumps don't really have any noticeable effect.

One thing it just occurred to me as potentially being worth mentioning.

Every day, on my way home from work, I merge (approx. 50mph) into a left turn "chicken" lane near my house. As I go over the painted line, I feel it in the steering wheel as the left wheel crosses over, but when the RF crosses over, it feels like the wheel wobbles on something. It's only in this one location. I wonder if this could suggest inner tie rod end, but if so, wouldn't I be able to get the lateral wiggle at the wheel when I try shaking it?

Rotor swap is worth a shot, I guess.

Thanks, gents.
 

SouthCaliVR4

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Location
North county San Diego
the only way to check the inners is with the suspension loaded, unless they're absolute toast.

Put it on a jack stand with the wheel off & the zerk fitting removed, jack it up from the bottom of the lower ball-joint then check for play in the tie rods & ball-joint.

the reasoning is that the ball sockets will be sitting at a different, not worn, point with the suspension at full droop.
 
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