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Re: 3000gt trailing arm install while keeping ABS and 4WS


cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 926104 posted 08/27/10 08:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah even in my crazy 'let's just fab it up and rock everyone's world' world that seems like a little bit too much work. I also don't like changing suspension geometry willy nilly just to get stuff to fit!

I would think if the correct rear diff ratio exists it would be far more realistic to possibly look at modifying the turbo GTO diff housing so that it would bolt to the existing subframe and moustache brace. I'd hazard a guess that the extra strength of the rear end comes from those thicker axles. You are going to be stuffed there as far as I can see if the axles are a different length. Even if you could get past the issue of the remaining suspension components coming up short, 35mm each side (total 70 mm) not to mention the extra track caused by the handbrake assembly in the hub. You are talking I'd imagine upwards of 5 cm on each side!

Okay, that's not huge, and you might be able to offset that in part by some careful wheel offset choices, but you are going to need to do something similar at the front if you don't want it to look stupid. Anyway you look at it, it is still a huge amount of work but it would have some merit as a one off modification that allowed you to use stock GTO axles.

But yeah I think the sub frame swap is a non-starter. If I was even going to consider that much fabrication I'd have someone build a custom tubular rear end.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!


Edited by cheekychimp (08/27/10 08:35 PM)

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Whoodoo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 926130 posted 08/27/10 11:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well I did a quick comparison of the wheel axles and the GTO wheel axle is, as you say, quite a bit longer to make room for the drum e-brake. Looks like I'll be needing that big long list of this and that before I crack into this one.

Of course there is the possibility of getting rid of the ABS... I want to keep it because I live in a fairly rainy area of the globe and with them big ole honkin' brakes on there, I want to give myself all the chance in the world to keep it out of a ditch.

Its funny though, I've never actually hit the ABS so maybe its all in my head and getting rid of it won't hurt much.



62/2k

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RedTwo
Rangi Kiwi


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 926132 posted 08/27/10 11:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Bah, this Dodge Stealth manual is useless, they don't appear to have the same components as JDM cars!
The TT GTO rear diff bearings (outside - where the axle shaft enters the diff) are beefy!
The VR4 (and NA or auto turbo GTO, most Evos, etc) has 72.0x35.0mm (O.DxI.D.), while the TT GTO has 82.50x45.24mm bearings!
Out of interest, the non turbo GTOs have pretty much the same diff components as the VR4 (gears, LSD unit, axle cups) and all GTOs have the same subframe and diff mounts/mustache braces.
So if you fab up a GTO diff to VR4 subframe conversion, you could use any GTO diff. Then you would just need to sort out the axle shaft between the CV joints - sounds like an easy job!


Awesome, on a slightly unrelated note, The Japanese Police GTO interceptors are listed in ASA (Z16A MNGF9 and MJGF9), unfortunately smoke screens, bullet proof glass, hand cuffs, sirens and police lights are all aftermarket accessories

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mitsuturbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 926143 posted 08/28/10 01:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Whoodoo:

Of course there is the possibility of getting rid of the ABS... I want to keep it because I live in a fairly rainy area of the globe and with them big ole honkin' brakes on there, I want to give myself all the chance in the world to keep it out of a ditch.

Its funny though, I've never actually hit the ABS so maybe its all in my head and getting rid of it won't hurt much.



No matter how much "ABS sucks on our cars" i've read and heard, i can't buy into it. ABS saved my ass a couple times, and lack thereof caused some damage to my vehicle once (when it was hot and dry out, nonetheless), and almost again another time. If my vr4 ABS quit working, i'd do everything i could to get it working again. Used/cheap parts are plentiful. IMHO there's no reason to NOT have ABS unless it's a track car, especially where we live.

Relevant sidenote: Is it possible to put a DSM ABS cpu in our cars along with DSM 5lug spindles, so ABS will function properly, or does the DSM system differ too much?



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
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2012 Hyundai Veloster


Edited by mitsuturbo (08/28/10 01:36 AM)

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 926149 posted 08/28/10 02:00 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

No matter how much "ABS sucks on our cars" i've read and heard, i can't buy into it. ABS saved my ass a couple times, and lack thereof caused some damage to my vehicle once (when it was hot and dry out, nonetheless), and almost again another time. If my vr4 ABS quit working, i'd do everything i could to get it working again. Used/cheap parts are plentiful. IMHO there's no reason to NOT have ABS unless it's a track car, especially where we live.




Funny that you mention this. My 8G VR4 ABS was CRAP! I literally sailed past and even through junctions standing on the brakes not because I was skidding but because the ABS was 'confused' and I was free wheeling. It did seem to be rough road surfaces that cause the issue and it seemed to behave very well on well surfaced roads but even so I regretted not pulling it because I think it attributed to the final crash and demise of that car.

But despite the fact that I have removed the ABS from my other 6G VR4, I had to stand hard on the brakes in the stock car this morning and I was impressed. Good pedal feel, locked up the wheels hard enough to give good tyre screech but no sliding and I stopped well short of the back of the postal truck pulling into my lane. If that is how the ABS intends to behave from now on, then it is welcome to stay on this car!

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 926150 posted 08/28/10 02:05 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I believe that is the course of action I will be taking. There have been some who have put a 1g ABS ECU in their G with success and, if the rear sensor is the same between the GTO and GVR4, then I don't think I'll have any issues.



62/2k

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 926151 posted 08/28/10 02:12 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting RedTwo:


The TT GTO rear diff bearings (outside - where the axle shaft enters the diff) are beefy!
The VR4 (and NA or auto turbo GTO, most Evos, etc) has 72.0x35.0mm (O.DxI.D.), while the TT GTO has 82.50x45.24mm bearings!
Out of interest, the non turbo GTOs have pretty much the same diff components as the VR4 (gears, LSD unit, axle cups) and all GTOs have the same subframe and diff mounts/mustache braces.
So if you fab up a GTO diff to VR4 subframe conversion, you could use any GTO diff. Then you would just need to sort out the axle shaft between the CV joints - sounds like an easy job!





I might have to look into this seriously. I could pretty much pull the rear subframe off the 'Ultimate' build and fit it to the stock car even if I decided to keep the 4WS. I'd have to change a few bits and swap brakes over but the rear diff ratio would work, I'd gain a plate LSD in the stock car and retain 4 bolt hubs so I could retain the ABS as well if I wanted.

I'm pretty sure this could be done, it is just a shame it might need custom axles. The ability to use stock axles would be the real deal maker for me. I will seriously have to lay all this stuff out on the floor and figure out just how wide it would be with a suitable offset. If it could work with stock axles I think custom tubular control arms might be an option. Hell I can see this coming off!

Edit: I suppose it would be wishing for too much to assume that the turbo GTO diff guts would fit into the VR4 housing or that the VR4 housing could be machined to accept the bigger bearings?


Edited by cheekychimp (08/28/10 02:40 AM)

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doommachine
Newbie


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1090390 posted 10/19/12 08:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I know this is thread necromancy.. but for other readers the differential itself is the same, only the housing differs. So yes, any GTO diff will fit into a galant; if the ratios are different it is not terribly difficult to remove the ring gear.

Additionally; the differentials themselves are manufactured to fairly good tolerances and thus if you reuse the ring gear from your galant diff, so long as the backlash on your original diff is OK you should be able to re-use the shims and have the same backlash. I swapped a cressida limited slip diff into a JZX100 chaser in this way, and the measured backlash was literally exactly the same. Of course make sure you mark which direction and side the shim is from.


Edited by doommachine (10/19/12 08:52 AM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1090593 posted 10/21/12 12:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Have you decided what to do with rear struts? RedTwo posted that that the lower strut post is larger on the GTO (his trailing arms came from a Diamante based chassis). I'm considering this swap for my GVR4, but have to see if K-Sport or similar coilover companies would sell just the lower threaded strut body for a 3KGT.



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RedTwo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1091254 posted 10/25/12 07:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It may pay to look into GTO rear suspension. They're longer and the top hat shouldn't be too different, if not identical.

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doommachine
Newbie


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1091839 posted 10/30/12 10:07 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
But not 2" longer, only a few CM. I guess some slight lowering would be OK but on a hard bump, just how far will the wheel or suspension travel? The body relative to the length of the shock will be 2" closer with the same amount of travel.

Also, redtwo you mentioned something about the control arms, I'm assuming you'd need the 3000gt control arms as well? They look similar-ish..

Actually, with the evo X shocks, surely the bushing can be pressed out and replaced?

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1091850 posted 10/30/12 11:24 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Talk to English Racing, they put a 3kgt vr4 rear diff under Jeff Bush's drag 1g DSM.



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