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Re: VGT Discussion on turbos


curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1020321 posted 09/23/11 04:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ok the Dodge computer and the little ecu board in the controller on the turbo runs off of a can bus. Don't know anything about it but a buddy told me that megasquirt has a new set-up to control a can bus. Haven't researched it since I haven't started on my car but did just find this.


click


I plan on taking pictures of my set-up and downloading and emailing the maps etc to them and see if what I have already have it or if it can be upgraded. I have a profec A as well as an AVCR for the car but hopefully I can just upgrade the megasquirt for the boost controller function as well as VGT control and run 8 injectors. I don't like wiring that much so I have a friend that wire tucked his Honda that will be running all the wires on the car. When we get to that point I'm pulling my harness and getting him to delete everything not needed and I still need to pick up an non eprom ecu to control the stuff megasquirt doesn't. Since I have a tablet PC for the car I'll just build a mount for it and let it be on all the time and use it for everything. Thats the plan anyway just hope everything works as it should.



92 GVR4 0475/1000
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"Put the dawg to work.
Ass, Gas or Milkbones. Nobody rides for free" Jon AKA Toybreaker

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desant78
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1020742 posted 09/25/11 09:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
ok lets assume you find a controller, it might be beneficial to all to create a master list of I/O's, or what variables the VGT will be a function of. This way, once you get the controller up and running, you'll know exact how to program this. Also having a master list will allow people (like me) to pursue other solutions. Anyone up for that? I know someone mentioned an AEM EMS solution for this problem.

I understand a lot will have to be tested and proven, but a rough idea what variables we need to measure would be very beneficial. I've read the previous post in this thread...people mention EGT, TPS, Load, etc.

I am starting to pursue a possible standalone PID controller, which I think is the easiest solution IMO. It will tap into the ecu to get this master list of variables we want to use. It makes a lot of sense to me, and in school used a cheap controller (like 60 bucks) to do a few PID projects that controllered stepper motors and servos. Writing the program with the variables and getting the needed inputs does not seem hard.

The challenge lies within communicating with the stepper motor. I am attempting to by-pass the whole CAN-bus route, since it's a pretty propitiatory thing.

oh and a 5 minute research lead to this discovery....using the same controller to make a standalone PID,

PID Standalone controoler

and yes i'm trying to get into contact with this gentlemen now.



i wanna go fast.

1991 GVR4 1662/2000 (parts car)
1992 GVR4 995/1000 (JSB)
2008 Evo X GSR (DD with bolt ons, 17x,xxx miles)

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chevyracer5613
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1024722 posted 10/10/11 03:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just thought i'd share a couple of thoughts with everyone. I have personally considered using a linear actuator because it would work well with my current setup, however being able to use the stock electronics would be neat and probably better. The only downfall to using the stock electronics is the extra size associated with it (and finding/building a controller). If I recall correctly from when I first started installing this turbo, with the stock electronic controller the only way to fit in on the modified t3 manifold (and not move the radiator) was if I rotated the turbo 180* so that the exhaust pointed out towards the passenger side. Even if I built a new manifold (still considering) retaining the stock electronics would mean moving or changing the radiator because of its size. With my current setup the exhaust housing is against the engine block and only about 1/2" from touching the radiator. With the turbo being so close the stock radiator tends to get a little warm when I am not moving (even with two electric fans on the other side), but once I am moving temps are normal. Driving with it is fun, my 510 cc injectors are maxed out at about 12 psi so I need some 1000-1200 cc injectors most likely, and boost comes on quick even though I have a few known exhaust leaks that are working against me.

On another note if memory serves right I think the stock gear driven motor had a max torque output of about 7 N*M (about 5 ft-lb)...so I dont think a new motor/lin. actuator would need a high load rating, but having one that can react quickly which be a huge benefit. I had found this information out a while ago b/c delphi sells the exact same controller for other things but I think it is set up to use PWM instead of CAN (same hardware just different wires hooked up).Also with my style setup (mechanic linkage/levers) I can mount a linear actuator almost anywhere, the benefit to this is moving it away from the hot exhaust. but since I am all for building a custom manifold, moving the radiator and using the stock electronic controller if someone can find a way to cheaply manipulate it :-D

Do note that a company has already made and used a VGT controller, the company is Fleece Performance, from a little research it looks like they are going release a standalone unit able to be tuned by usb for $625.....

I used to have a bunch of files on the holset back when I was looking into modifying the stock controller but I did find an alleged compressor map


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chevyracer5613
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025242 posted 10/12/11 03:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I was going through my old files and found some other diamgrams that someone might find useful.




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desant78
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025254 posted 10/12/11 04:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks for all the support information! I am working some tweaks in a basic outline for the code..a simple one to start. Currently looking for a turbo. Lets keep this discussion going....no one has really made a controller that was not a 2-D map. The more information the better!



i wanna go fast.

1991 GVR4 1662/2000 (parts car)
1992 GVR4 995/1000 (JSB)
2008 Evo X GSR (DD with bolt ons, 17x,xxx miles)

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025336 posted 10/12/11 07:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Desant, are you simply looking for a turbo for test purposes or are you intending to install one on your car?



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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desant78
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025561 posted 10/13/11 05:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If you see the video links, he uses a potentiometer to give the position feedback. I am planning on fabricating the housing so I'm looking to purchase one. On the side, if I am looking up possible ways to communicate via the current controller, if that does seem to show some promise, I could use one for testing purposes.



i wanna go fast.

1991 GVR4 1662/2000 (parts car)
1992 GVR4 995/1000 (JSB)
2008 Evo X GSR (DD with bolt ons, 17x,xxx miles)

Posts: 732 | From: Clarksboro, NJ | Member Since: 06/23/10 | IP: (173.13.107.101) | Report this post to a Moderator

boostx
On The Wrong Side.
23/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025598 posted 10/13/11 07:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had pick a very low mileage on eBay some time ago for under $200 ship..



Love the F Letter
Four wheel steering
Four doors
Four cylinders
Force induced
><((((º>

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desant78
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025616 posted 10/13/11 08:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
been looking..but finding pricey ones and I kinda feel odd buying one on ebay unless it's a good deal.



i wanna go fast.

1991 GVR4 1662/2000 (parts car)
1992 GVR4 995/1000 (JSB)
2008 Evo X GSR (DD with bolt ons, 17x,xxx miles)

Posts: 732 | From: Clarksboro, NJ | Member Since: 06/23/10 | IP: (173.13.107.101) | Report this post to a Moderator

boostx
On The Wrong Side.
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025640 posted 10/13/11 09:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That sucks because when i got mine the price range was between 175 to $350 depending on the shape.



Love the F Letter
Four wheel steering
Four doors
Four cylinders
Force induced
><((((º>

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desant78
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025669 posted 10/13/11 11:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yea i know....all the post i find are within that price are from 2009-10...and those people already sold them. but I'll find one I just gotta be patient.



i wanna go fast.

1991 GVR4 1662/2000 (parts car)
1992 GVR4 995/1000 (JSB)
2008 Evo X GSR (DD with bolt ons, 17x,xxx miles)

Posts: 732 | From: Clarksboro, NJ | Member Since: 06/23/10 | IP: (173.13.107.101) | Report this post to a Moderator

boostx
On The Wrong Side.
23/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025749 posted 10/14/11 06:42 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It must be sick to hit full boost by 3k RPM.

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BrandonEchols
Snow White
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025772 posted 10/14/11 10:11 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'll keep a watch out locally.
There's a guy in town who works at the Dodge dealership and gets them every so often and sells them fairly cheap.



What is hellaflush?

Mitsubishi = Must Involve Turbos, Suck Unless Boost Is Seriously High Inside

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025781 posted 10/14/11 11:30 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Boostx:

It must be sick to hit full boost by 3k RPM.




Yeah but what you aren't actually letting on to the uninitiated here John is that it isn't just the notion of being able to spin a big turbo quickly (people have been doing that with various degrees of success for years by launching at insane rpms, using anti lag and nitrous etc) it is being able to effectively change the A/R of the turbo at will. Even if you can make 700 hp at 3000 rpms it becomes near impossible to hook up the tyres. Drivers end up experimenting with launch after launch after launch doing everything from breaking drivetrain parts to bogging and everything in between (wheel hop and spinning through three gears etc.). The beauty of getting this to work is that you can effectively launch on an A/R of a 16G getting perfect traction and nailing a 1.6 sec 60 ft, but then as soon as you are off the line gradually increase it so that you progress through the equivalent of an HX35 in 2nd, an FP 3065 in 3rd and a GT42R in 4th.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!


Edited by cheekychimp (10/14/11 11:41 AM)

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boostx
On The Wrong Side.
23/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025788 posted 10/14/11 12:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You are 100% right Paul but i have all always get rush to see a high HP NA car that can light up the tires of idle.

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1025861 posted 10/14/11 05:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well LOL, the things that are most fun in life are rarely the most effective or efficient.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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MuffinMan7580
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1026199 posted 10/16/11 01:08 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting cheekychimp:



The beauty of getting this to work is that you can effectively launch on an A/R of a 16G getting perfect traction and nailing a 1.6 sec 60 ft, but then as soon as you are off the line gradually increase it so that you progress through the equivalent of an HX35 in 2nd, an FP 3065 in 3rd and a GT42R in 4th.




If that's what you want, run a 42R with an electronic boost controller with boost per gear, and use NLTS. What makes this mostappealing is the DD side of it. Very little lag for driving around town power, and then HUGE a/r's for doing interstate/track runs, and anything in-between. If you want to regulate power by choking your engine out in lower gears with dinky A/R's, then open it up later, I'd love to see how you'd tune for that, because you're not going to. If you somehow made a different fuel and timing map for every gear, then your engine definitely wouldn't hold together long, then you'd realize that regulating boost is much better than regulating exhaust back pressure for regulating power.



'92 GVR4 #570/1000


Edited by MuffinMan7580 (10/16/11 01:38 AM)

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thecman02
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1026265 posted 10/16/11 10:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I work at a company that does communication bus translators and scan tools/diagnostics. If I get some downtime at work I'll see if I can't make a translator to produce a can output so we can use a dodge control module.

I think VGT would be epic. I could ruin some peoples day in the max effort at shoot out haha.



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boostx
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1026662 posted 10/17/11 09:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
One of these VGT mounted will look so intimidating



Love the F Letter
Four wheel steering
Four doors
Four cylinders
Force induced
><((((º>

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boostx
On The Wrong Side.
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1026891 posted 10/18/11 05:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I wonder how much fab work will be needed to mount one of these big over size snail.All i can think of is brace brace and more brace.



Love the F Letter
Four wheel steering
Four doors
Four cylinders
Force induced
><((((º>

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chevyracer5613
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1026896 posted 10/18/11 06:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Boostx- Here is mine when it was in my eclipse, same configuration as it sits in my galant .



and just for turbo size comparisons....stock vs vgt


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boostx
On The Wrong Side.
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1026901 posted 10/18/11 07:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have one one of those. What was the under hood temp like?

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chevyracer5613
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1026902 posted 10/18/11 07:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Boostx- All of my temperatures are "normal" except my water temp starts to get high when I am just sitting for more than a minute or two. I assume mainly becaust the exhaust housings is almost touching the stock radiator. My IAT's were generally between 80-120 depending on the temp outside if I recall correctly but id have to go back through my logs to verify.

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boostx
On The Wrong Side.
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1026906 posted 10/18/11 07:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ok,I thought is would run a bit hot because of the exhaust housing,
Another size comparisons....stock, evo9 and soda can vs Godzilla




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desant78
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1080865 posted 08/14/12 12:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Any updates on this project? I got distracted with other projects and have made no progress. How about anyone else?



i wanna go fast.

1991 GVR4 1662/2000 (parts car)
1992 GVR4 995/1000 (JSB)
2008 Evo X GSR (DD with bolt ons, 17x,xxx miles)

Posts: 732 | From: Clarksboro, NJ | Member Since: 06/23/10 | IP: (138.162.0.45) | Report this post to a Moderator


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